Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



Pages: (3) [1] 2 3   ( Go to first unread post ) Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> The naval engagement of 26 June 1941
dragos
Posted: July 06, 2004 07:38 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 2395
Member No.: 2
Joined: February 11, 2003



On 25 June 1941, at 19:15, a task force made of destroyers HARKOV (P. A. Melnikov) and MOSKVA (A. B. Tyhov) left Sevastopol harbor, followed after two hours and a half by a supporting force made of heavy cruiser VOROSHILOV (F. S. Markov) and destroyers SOOBRAZITELNII (S. S. Volkov) and SMISHLENII (V. P. Veppers). The task force headed to Odessa, then changed direction towards Constanta during night. At 03:42, the Soviet destroyers deployed their anti-mine shield. Minutes later, a mine exploded in the right shield of HARKOV, without causing damage to the ship.

At 03:58, two ships were spotted by destroyer REGINA MARIA, but they were believed to be friendly destroyers at Midia. The two ships heading south-west at high speed opened fire. The first two salvos fell in the waters of Constanta harbor, framing minelayer CAROL (three shells in starboard stern, two shells in port stern). The Soviet destroyers fired 350 shells of 130-mm, at distances up to 24000 meters (over three salvos per minute). It was aimed the Palas railroad station, where an ammunition train has been hit and several fuel tanks were ignited.

At 03:59 AM destroyer MARASTI turned north and armed the 120-mm guns. At 04:12 AM destroyer MARASTI opened fire, starting from 14800 meters, closing to 11400 meters. The first salvo caused the windows of navigation cabin to shatter. Destroyer REGINA MARIA also opened fire.

At 04:15 AM the Soviet destroyers launched smoke screens and headed open sea.

At 04:19 AM destroyer MARASTI ceased fire at a distance of 16000 meters after having fired 19 shells. At 04:22 AM destroyer REGINA MARIA ceased fire at a distance of 18000 meters, after having fired 23 shells.

At 04:22 AM “Tirpitz” coastal battery opened fire, one shot followed after one minute by three salvos of three shots each, firing 53 shells.

The Soviet destroyer MOSKVA suffered a great explosion and broke in two parts, sinking between 04:23 and 04:25. The cause of explosion was the collision with a mine, because the established location of the Soviet destroyer at the moment of the explosion was exactly on the mine barrage in Tuzla area. The mine explosion ignited the ammunition store at the stern.

HARKOV continued the escaping route. A nearby hit damaged the tubes of two steam tanks, causing his speed to drop to 6 knots. Two mechanics (Petr Grebennikov and Petr Kairov), dressed in asbestus suits, emerged for repairs, and at 07:14 the ship recovered its 26 knots.

The supporting task force also approached the Romanian coast. A mine exploded in the shield of SOOBRAZITELNII, causing light damage to the bow of cruiser VOROSHILOV. The cruiser turned away after sending the destroyers SOOBRAZITELNII and SMISHLENII to provide AA support for the retreating HARKOV.
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
dragos
Posted: July 10, 2004 09:19 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 2395
Member No.: 2
Joined: February 11, 2003



MOSKVA

(IMG:http://www.worldwar2.ro/images/forum/moskva.jpg)


The survivors of MOSKVA in Romanian custody.

(IMG:http://www.worldwar2.ro/images/forum/moskva_2.jpg)
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
blink7422
Posted: March 15, 2010 12:28 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1
Member No.: 2202
Joined: July 23, 2008



era pe undeva o fotografie cu schema bataliei din 26 iunie 1941... m-as bucura foarte tare daca as regasi-o
multumesc anticipat
PMEmail Poster
Top
Victor
Posted: March 17, 2010 07:46 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4330
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



The forum rules clearly specify the posting in English. Please comply.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
contras
Posted: April 05, 2010 10:50 am
Quote Post


Maior
*

Group: Members
Posts: 730
Member No.: 2693
Joined: December 28, 2009



I saw a documentary at TVR few years ago, when others presumtions were made. One of them was that Moskva destroyer could be hit by friendly fire, from one of the Soviet subs.
Otherwise, the most logical explanation is a mine from Tuzla barrage, even if everyone tried to claim the kill, including Tirpitz coastal battery.
PMEmail Poster
Top
MMM
Posted: April 06, 2010 10:47 am
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1463
Member No.: 2323
Joined: December 02, 2008



QUOTE (contras @ April 05, 2010 10:50 am)
I saw a documentary at TVR few years ago, when others presumtions were made. One of them was that Moskva destroyer could be hit by friendly fire, from one of the Soviet subs.
Otherwise, the most logical explanation is a mine from Tuzla barrage, even if everyone tried to claim the kill, including Tirpitz coastal battery.

What did the survivers from "Moskva" say regarding the sinking? Perhaps they could have enlightened the "mystery"...
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
contras
Posted: April 07, 2010 07:57 pm
Quote Post


Maior
*

Group: Members
Posts: 730
Member No.: 2693
Joined: December 28, 2009



QUOTE
What did the survivers from "Moskva" say regarding the sinking? Perhaps they could have enlightened the "mystery"...


NKVD and the commisars taked care to don't say a word about it. The ideea was put into question because the crew of one of the subs who was in area was disbanded and all the members were split to other units. Same time, all other the crews, subs or surface, were awarded, except this one.
PMEmail Poster
Top
dragos
Posted: April 07, 2010 09:02 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 2395
Member No.: 2
Joined: February 11, 2003



The prisoners couldn't give more details, as they claimed to be at their posts when the explosion occurred.

But if it was a friendly fire from a Soviet submarine, in the heat of battle it was hard to tell for the crew of Moskva it wasn't a mine or a torpedo from an enemy submarine, so they couldn't know it was friendly fire to cover it up.
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
contras
Posted: June 23, 2010 03:29 pm
Quote Post


Maior
*

Group: Members
Posts: 730
Member No.: 2693
Joined: December 28, 2009



One map of the battle, from Nicolae Koslinski, Raymond Stanescu, Marina romana in al doilea razboi mondial, , ed. Fat-Frumos, Bucuresti, 1996, vol I.

http://cristiannegrea.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html
PMEmail Poster
Top
contras
Posted: June 23, 2010 03:46 pm
Quote Post


Maior
*

Group: Members
Posts: 730
Member No.: 2693
Joined: December 28, 2009



Sorry, my mistake. Real map is down there.

One map of the battle, from Nicolae Koslinski, Raymond Stanescu, Marina romana in al doilea razboi mondial, , ed. Fat-Frumos, Bucuresti, 1996, vol I.

(IMG:http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4646/hartao.jpg)
PMEmail Poster
Top
Petre
Posted: July 04, 2010 06:19 pm
Quote Post


Capitan
*

Group: Members
Posts: 644
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



From www.Adevarul.ro, a post on the forum by Vladimir Deveselu 23.Jun.2010 :
"I know very well the story of Moskva. At that time my father (Lt.Cmdr. Petre Popescu-Deveselu) was the chief of staff at the Romanian-German Headquarter.
It was at that time a whole discussion about who sank the ship: the mines, the guns of Regina Maria or the German battery Tirpitz...
My father, as Romanian officier, claimed the success of our destroyer, challenged by the Germans who claimed that the range of the guns of RM was not sufficient to hit the Russian, advocating for Tirpitz battery. However the ship has sunk and the Soviets have never came to blows.
About Harkov, sister-ship of Moskva, she was touched by our guns, was damaged, and retired at Sevastopol, where it was found by Romanian troops when they occupied the city. The Soviets were lucky, the deck was pierced in three places by shells that probably did not explode…"


This post has been edited by Petre on July 04, 2010 06:24 pm
PMEmail Poster
Top
Victor
Posted: July 05, 2010 08:26 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4330
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



The Kharkov was not captured in Sevastopol in 1942. It was sunk by the Luftwaffe in 1943.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
contras
Posted: July 25, 2010 10:48 am
Quote Post


Maior
*

Group: Members
Posts: 730
Member No.: 2693
Joined: December 28, 2009



PMEmail Poster
Top
MMM
  Posted: July 30, 2010 05:14 pm
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1463
Member No.: 2323
Joined: December 02, 2008



Oh, he's soooo modest!
If we had a couple more like him in those days, we'd have had the Black Sea as a Romanian lake, isn't that so?
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
dragos
Posted: July 30, 2010 05:28 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 2395
Member No.: 2
Joined: February 11, 2003



Yes, the article is laughable. The "specialists" called destroyer Moskva the "Titanic of the Black Sea". I wonder who these specialists are. :D
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Pages: (3) [1] 2 3  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.1099 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]