Fighter Ace Greceanu test-flew the Messerschmitt 262 Jet!

[Der Maresal]

How many peoples have heard of this.?... Yet it is true!
The first German Jet captured by the allies was flown by a Romanian!

I have the artice right here in my hand and i'm reading it as i type, too bad it can not be posted here as an image.

It is titled: "For his 37 air-victories scored during the war, the aviator Teodor Greceanu was rewarded with 16 years heavy prison sentence" or in Romanian:
"Pentru cele 37 victorii dobandite in razboi, aviatorul Teodor Greceanu a fost rasplatit cu 16 ani temnita grea".

here's a small portion fron the article:

-----------------------------The Messerschmitt 262 -----------------------------
"Towards the end of the war this amazingly fast machine was captured by the Americans and brought for study to the Military Airfield Wiener-Neustadt in Austria. (This was in the summer of 1945, and the allies held this airshow mainly to test German aircraft they had captured)
However nobody dared to start this plane and take it off the ground, and the idea to have a German prisoner fly it was out of the question and seen as "insulting" by the allies. So there came the idea that the Jet be flown by a Romanian pilot since it was well known that the Romanian airforce had been well equipped with german aircraft. That was the reason why in the next few days numerous Romanian crews arrived from 'Piestany' in Czechoslovakia to the Neustadt airport.

Amongst them landed also Captain Teodor Greceanu in a Messerschmitt-109G-6, and since his own plane was part of this Messerschmitt familly, he recieved the mission of taking off with this amazing new 2-reactor Jet.
When he first arrived at Neustadt he was seeing this new machine for the first time, and parked his little fighter right next to it. He was not impressed at all, he even found it ugly looking! "It was ugly, small, low...that's how he described it at first. Near me was a German pilot, prisoner whom the americans asked to explain me all the maneuvers and controlls. Then I made a test start. The Reactor ignited very easily, a bit too long however because of my fault. Slowly I accelerated.. the landing also took a short time. THe aircraft took alot of brake, beacuse of the tri-cycle landing gear. I can't say that I liked the flight, nor that I felt in controll of it! I talked to them again to make a second flight the next morning - Takeoff, fly away and dissepear..and return over the airfield at high speed and with noise, as much noise as possible! ( ) !!



The second flight was a success. He recieved congratulations for his curageous and daring flight. However little did he know that by now his name was on the 'black list' of the political communist police. The Motive? Having flown under his country's colours against four Airforces, The Soviet, the American, the British and the Hungarian Greceanu scored 37 Victories, which made him one of his country's top Aces. His homeland awared these succeses with the Mihai Viteazu Order, and the "Virtutea Aeronautica" medal for officers, with Oak leaves. Awards which were supplemented by numerous German medals as well. The only problem was that the majority of his kills were scored against the Red Airforce, something that the Bolshevick occupation would not forget.
He was arrested and condemned to death, later his sentence was commuted to 16 years in prison. (About five and a half (5 1/2) Months in Jail for each plane he shot down in the War.

Greceanu died in 1994, at the age of 76. He was already greatly weakened by the numerous illnesses he had while he served his 16 years jail sentence.

So that's how we treated our heroes.. :cry:

[Dénes]

QUOTE

How many peoples have heard of this.?... Yet it is true! The first German Jet captured by the allies was flown by a Romanian!

The claim is most probably not true.

I interviewed personally Mr. Greceanu in his home, in the early '90s, and he repeated his claim to me, too. However, when I asked for details, he failed to remember anything concrete (could presume it's due to his old age and poor health, though). Moreover, during the interview he also claimed unrealistic number of 'kills' on the so-called 'Western Front', which I know cannot be real. His total score is also inflated (he scored 18 confirmed and 5 unconfirmed air-to-air 'kills', plus a gound one, amounting to a total of 24+ victories).

I had the chance to check out his log book (after his death) and there is no mention whatsoever of the Me 262 flight, although the flight to the air show in his Bf 109Ga-6 was included in the log book. Therefore his claim, raised only in his last period of his life (no other veterans could remember this from the earlier time period), is most probably unfounded.

Dénes

P.S. "Maresale", don't believe everything that's written... :wink:

[Csaba Becze]

If I know correctly, only one Hungarian pilot flew with the Me 262 during the war (from German's allies). He was a well experienced test pilot and tried the type just once.
Some Hungarian and Italian pilots got several instructions about this type, but didn't got a chance to fly (about the Italians should ask an Italian researcher).

[C-2]

All the pilots that still live and have been with Greceanu in Austria those days said there was no 262 there !And Greceanu didn't flew any 262!
I was realy impresed when I first read about the 262,but later I was told that Greceanu got that story at his last years when he was old and sick(so nobody is angry about this,since he suffered a lot in his life).
I have a German movie about the trainings of 262 pilots and I can tell you,there was no way to lern to fly it in 2 days!
From what I heard Greceanu never flew a twin engine.

[Der Maresal]

At least we know he was at that Airshow. The words he describes how he started and flew the Jet sound fairly convincing.

One thing that could be done is to find the German Pilot who "assisted" him and explained how to fly the plane. But what are the odds. :roll:

If anyone wants a copy of this article just tell me, I will Email it to you imediately. (It is scanned, original and with a Photo of Pilot Greceanu.)

I admit it could be a false story, however many things were hidden for such a long time especially in Romania (a country which is not even sure if it lost or won the second world war)

:roll:

[C-2]

At exactly this airshow ,after the meeting on the way to the base ,Milu and Baciu had a dog fight with 3 Russian fighters flying the oposit direction.
Baciu got one but had to make a "belly" after beeing hit also by the "allies".

[Victor]

Baciu claimed he shot down a Yak. He had no witnesses.

[C-2]

Anyway I think for Baciu it was better not to have credit on that Kill...
We all know why!

[inahurry]

QUOTE

One thing that could be done is to find the German Pilot who \"assisted\" him and explained how to fly the plane. But what are the odds.   :roll:

I don't know if this is the pilot you're looking for but it took me just a couple of minutes to search the net and paste the link :

[url] http://aviatia.freeyellow.com/ANUNT.HTM [/url]

excerpt : "The flight was made by T. Greceanu because the German pilot who used to fly with the Me 262, Oberst Adolf Dickfeld has lost the right to fly. The Romanian was known as a testpilot of the Romanian army for the Me Bf 109G and has been accepted and trained for this flight."

[inahurry]

And these seem to be the ones Americans used to instruct them on how to fly the ME-262 :

http://indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/Wats...sonWhizzers.htm

"After the war, the "Whizzers" added Luftwaffe test pilots to their team. One was Hauptman Heinz Braur. On May 8, 1945, Braur flew 70 women, children, and wounded troops to Munich-Riem airport. After he landed, Braur was approached by one of Watson's men who gave him the choice of either going to a prison camp or flying with the "Whizzers." Braur thought flying more preferable. Three Messerschmitt employees also joined the "Whizzers:" Karl Baur, the Chief Test Pilot of Experimental Aircraft; test pilot Ludwig "Willie" Huffman; and engineering superintendent, Gerhard Coulis. Test pilot Herman Kersting joined later. When the "Whizzers" located nine Me 262 jet aircraft at Lechfeld airfield, these German test pilots had the expertise to fly them."

[Der Maresal]

So you see...it's true afterall.

It could be that his flight was not made public that much, and that peoples chose not to talk about. Dickfeld is probably dead, and the americans might 'not remeber' anything about that event.

You see, me and Greceanu are not the only lunatics to talk about this, .. it seems that this event took place afterall. Other peoples are talking about it as well. The links you gave me are pretty good. I still have that newspaper article with Greceanu and the Me262. Maybe you want it.. :!:

[C-2]

Guys ,guys, as I'm a great admiror of the 262 and as much that I'd want a ARR pilot to be one of the first who flew it,There were other pilots there those days(Dobran,Stinghe,Galea and others)no one saw any 262 there in the time they spent there,and all of them said he didn't flew a 262.
And there's no way you could fly a 262 so easy.
As I already said ,I have a film about the 262,and it was very complicate to fly and needed a lot of training.It was imposible to fly it after a brief training...

[inahurry]

QUOTE

And there's no way you could fly a 262 so easy.

Browsing throught the site I came upon another interesting link, the ferrying of ME-262 to France by American pilots :

http://www.indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/...PLANES/0110.htm

"Lieutenant Roy W. Brown recalled his first jet flight on that day:

The Me 262 was smooth, quiet, and very responsive to the controls compared to the P-47 I had been flying for about a year. I had also flown a P-40 in the States, and the Me 262 was even better than that.

The plane was easy -- and a pleasure -- to fly. Because of its high speed, I found myself going through my maps quickly to keep pace with the distance covered over the ground.
...
"
I don't know if Greceanu flew a ME-262. Records of such an event may simply never existed. If his presence there coincided with the presence of ME-262 it is more likely to find proof about but still the presence of ME-262 doesn't automatically imply he flew one. Doesn't imply he didn't, either. People do forget. There are notorious examples.

Dickfeld flew He-162 in combat missions, don't know if he tested Me-262 too.

For sure there are others who think Greceanu flew a Me-262 Although I'm not very interested in the WW2 aces exploits I admit such kind of investigative work can be fascinating.

[inahurry]

Just another short quote which I find quite significant (same link) :

"To this day, this mission remains a largely overlooked feat of incredible airmanship. Except for Watson, Strobell and the two test pilots, this constituted the first extended flight that any of the men had ever made in a German plane, and their first solo in a jet aircraft of any kind. "

[Cristian Craciunoiu]

There are a lot of logical arguments against this possibility. I had the opportunity to talk several times and even record an interview with mr. Sorin Tulea ex He 111 pilot during the war. He was a good friend of Greceanu and they spend some good years of their lives in jail because they fought against Soviets and more had non comunist political convictions. Greceanu told and retold him the story of the event several times. He even tested his friend asking for details in the morning, at midnight, at forced labour or during the meals. He never masde any mistake and more, he convinced his friend about this story.
I believe it because I am an admirer of Sorin Tulea ( the real author of all Romanian Air Force coloured pictures in circulation today ). He is among the most correct and equilibrated persons I ever met.
My argument is completly subjective: if Tulea belived him and said it was true, I belive too and say the same: it was true.