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> 1848/49 in Transilvania, about those revolutionary years
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Posted: April 30, 2007 06:23 pm
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From the begining is good to set some expresions to avoid futile discusions: who was revolutionary on those years and who were contrarevolutionary. Who was loyal and who was traitor.

Both sides could be considered one or another, cos both of them considered themselves...revolutionary, but of course for different purposes. So when a faction spoke about herself, it was of course revolutionary, in the same time the oposite faction was, again of course,...contrarevolutionary :).

I'd hope that this post will be for exposing facts, not to heat the spirits.

So, feel free to contribute with anything one might know about the battles from those civil war years, which marked the eventually history of both nations.
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21 inf
Posted: April 30, 2007 07:03 pm
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The romanian forces fought on those years on the side of austrians.

They were mainly raised from the ranks of "motzi", who are peasants from the high-plateau of Carpatians. It was only a small number of professional soldiers and officers, romanians who served in border regiments.

The coordination center (headquarter) of romanian legions was Abrud (Abrudbanya), today in Alba county.

Motzii was organized in legions (or “prefecturi”). Each village had to sent 100 men fit for battle. 10 men formed a decurio, led by a decurion (equivalent to corporal or seargent), those 100 men (or 10 decurio) formed a centurio, led by a centurion (equivalent to captain).
10 villages (or 10 centurio, or 1000 men) formed a “tribunat”, led by a “tribun” (equivalent to major).
10 tribunate x 1000 men each formed a prefecture (or legion), so a legion consisted of 10.000 men.

In total, motzii raised 15 legions, more or less with full ranks.

Here are the names of a part of the motzi legions:

Legio Prima Blasiana – led by prefect Axente Sever
Legio Auraria Gemina – led by prefect Avram Iancu (age 24)
Legio Ulpia Traiana – led by prefect Nicolae Solomon
Legio Auraria et Salinae – led by prefect Simion Balint
Legio Reghin – led by prefect Constantin Romanu-Vivu
Legio Tarnava – led by prefect Macavei Moldovan
Legio Campestre – led by prefect Alexandru Batraneanu (age 25)

As armament they had mainly tools from around the house: axes, forks, “coase indreptate” (translation will be welcomed), “lanci”, with a few fire weapons: pistols, hunting rifles; some military rifles (in bad shape) were supplied by Austrian army from its warehouses from Alba Iulia and Deva, and those rifles were distribuited mainly to Legio Auraria Gemina.
Motzii had some artillery, consisting on some little iron canons and some handcrafted wooden guns (made from cherish and "frasin" wood). Powder and bullets were supplied (in small quantity) by Austrian army, the rest of the quantity was from spoiles of war.


The age of the conscripts was between 17 to 50 years.

In case of alarm, they have to suply their own food for several days, cos it was not existing a suply service for none of the legions.

sources: George Gane, member of Romanian-American Academy; Avram Iancu si timpul sau
Ioan Chindris - cercetator stiintific principal I; Institutul de istorie "George Barit".
Florian Dudas - Avram Iancu in traditia poporului.
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21 inf
Posted: April 30, 2007 08:24 pm
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Potrait of Avram Iancu (Craisorul Muntilor) by Barbu Iscovescu.

(IMG:http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/2811/avramiancu2dq4.jpg)

Lancea of Avram Iancu

(IMG:http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/4953/lancealuiiancuhc7.jpg)

source: http://www.darnick.com/halmagiu

This post has been edited by 21 inf on April 30, 2007 08:31 pm
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21 inf
Posted: April 30, 2007 08:25 pm
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Lajos Kossuth

(IMG:http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/6151/kossuthpq3.gif)

source: http://www.darnick.com/halmagiu


This post has been edited by 21 inf on April 30, 2007 08:26 pm
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21 inf
Posted: April 30, 2007 08:27 pm
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21 inf
Posted: April 30, 2007 08:43 pm
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This was the homes that motzii was defending in 1848/49.

(IMG:http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4182/trasc017tc5.jpg)

(IMG:http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4030/trasc028ly5.jpg)

photos by W. Scherz
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21 inf
Posted: May 01, 2007 01:28 pm
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The fightings from Abrud, 6-19 may 1849

Prelude to the fightings.

In late April 1849, Kossuth and Hungarian government sent a Romanian deputy from Hungarian Diet, Ioan Dragos from Bihor shire (comitat) for peace talkings with Avram Iancu, in Abrud, Zarand shire(1).
The meeting between Ioan Dragos and Romanian revolutionaries took place at village of Mihaileni, in Zarand shire, at 22 or 23 April 1849. First arrived from Romanian side was Ioan Buteanu, followed by Avram Iancu, Petru Dobra, Vladutiu, Vasile Moldovan, Boieriu and others(2).
Second day, Hungarian major Hatvany communicated and confirmed to Avram Iancu the cease fire agreement during the peace talkings.
Ioan Dragos returned to Debretin to speak with Kossuth about negociations with Romanians and he is back at Mihaileni on 2nd of May 1849 to resume peace negociations(3).
At Saturday 5th of May, in Campeni and in the following day, Sunday, 6th of May 1849, in Abrud it was held a popular meeting, in the presence of Hungarian government representative, Ioan Dragos, to inform and to consult the motz population about the peace agreements(4)(5).
At 16 hours on 6th of May, word came from the outskirts of Abrud that major Hatvany with his troops is heading to the town, breaking the armistice(6). In the evening, major Hatvany with 1.400 soldiers and 3 canons entered Abrud. By that time, Avram Iancu and a number of motzi leaders had escaped from the town, but a number of other motzi leaders believed the “salvus conductus” gaved by major Hatvany and didn’t evacuated themselves at time. They was captured by hussars: prefects Buteanu, Moldovan, Dobra, Boteanu from Cluj, viceprefect Muresan, tribuns Moga, Molnar, Andreica, Boieriu, Begnescu, Arpadi and others (7) .
In the second day, Monday, 7th of May, Buteanu and Dobra was arrested at their homes. One motz, named Crisanut, from Rosia, seeing that hussars was behaving as conquerors, said to major Hatvany that he should ask the “opinion” of motzi regarding the occupation of Abrud. Major Hatvany was so angry about those words that he killed the man with his own hand(8). Hussars, backed up with some 400 hungarian militia from Rosia, killed a number of Romanian civilians and burned a number of buildings at Rosia and Abrud (8).
Hatvany sent a letter to Avram Iancu, on 7th of May, warning him to surrender the weapons otherwise all motzi will be killed, including the children in their mother’s wombs(9).
Avram Iancu did not touched the letter, he put someone to read it the front of the motzi.
Avram Iancu replied to Hatvany’s letter:
“It is true that we have few and bad weapons, very few and bad ammunition; but we have strong virtue and beliefs…, which will help us to win their good weapons with our bad weapons. We are not obeying, let our bad weapons and our great virtue to decide among we and they.”(10)

This post has been edited by 21 inf on May 03, 2007 07:10 pm
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21 inf
Posted: May 01, 2007 01:30 pm
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The fighting begins

Avram Iancu decides to surround town of Abrud at Tuesday, 8th of May.
For this purpose, he deployed on Stiurt hill viceprefect Simion Groza with his men, at Cernita tribun Corches and decurion Iambor with his armed people, at nearby hills he placed tribun Aiudeanu and Rusu with the armed groups. On the hill towards Rosia is placed tribun Andreica (who escaped captivity), on the hill Surupost is tribun Faur with his men and on the rest of the hill is deployed the great army led by prefect Vladutiu. Major Hatvany, seeing the deployments of motz army, tried to open his way towards Brad city, so the reinforcements be able to link with his hussars.
The bloodiest fight was at Rosia, were 2 hungarian companies, reinforced with Hungarian militia from Abrud (a total of about 650 men strong force), attacked the units of tribun Andreica. Andreica resisted the assault and pushed back the enemy towards the town of Abrud, routing them. Another Hungarian company was surrounded by “lancieri” and almost totally wiped out in the battle. In Rosia, a Hungarian detachment started to put fire on Romanian houses, but it was took by surprise by a Romanian subunit and the fight raged late on that night. Only in this engagement the enemy lost about 300 dead and way too few wounded(11)
At 9th of May, the fightings were so close to the city that motz bullets were entering in houses thru windows. Hatvany tried to resist, but he was confronted with direct pedestrian assault when motzii reached 200 paces to the town of Abrud. He organized the retreat towards Brad city taking with him all civilians (Hungarians and Romanians) from Abrud. At the bridge from Cernita, Hungarian troops abandoned the civilians, being under attack from motzi, who saw the retreating movement of Hatvany.(12)
The evacuation was organized at evening, so the battle took also at night. At 4 a.m. on 10th of May, Hatvany tried to break thru motzi lines, but being observed, the battle took greater proportions; Hatvany and few of his men managed to escape toward Brad city, but all the other Hungarians fell in battle.(13) This last fight took place between Hatvany forces and assaulting columns led by tribun Corches and Olteanu and decurion Iambor on the left flank and tribun Aiudeanu and Rusu on the right flank.(13)
At 11th of May Abrud was in motzi’s hands, but major Hatvany made the promise that he shall return.
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21 inf
Posted: May 01, 2007 01:33 pm
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He did so on 16th of May, when he returned with 2 battalions raised from Zarand shire, 2 szekler companies and additional 2 german companies from Totenkopflegion. With them was a uncertain number of “lotri” of Rozsa Sandor "bandit" (who was eventualy killed in battle by motzi). A total of 2.800 men with 4 canons. (14)
Hatvany entered Abrud on the same day of 16th of May.
On 17th of May motzii took the same positions as occupied for the previous battle. Bloodiest fightings (even hand-to-hand) was at Rosia, Corna and at hill Sturt, were viceprefect Simion Groza opposed invading forces.(15)
During the night of 18 to 19th May Avram Iancu advanced with the reserve corp from Campeni towards Abrud.
Battle was raging continuously for 30 hours, when motzii managed to throw back Hatvany’s army. He try his escape toward Zlatna city, simulating attacks on various directions as decoy for motzi.
He was reached from behind repeatedly at Gura Cornei, Cerbu, Bolfu and Dupa Piatra.
The most savage fight took place at Bucium Cerbu, were the 6th Totenkopf german company, with 4 canons, found herself surrounded by motzi. The german legionares fought desperately using even the canons, but they were completely destroyed by motzi. Only 6 german survived as prisoners. All the others were killed and canons captured.(16)

It is evaluated that in total in both battles for Abrud Hatvany lost about 5.000 men (if not more), both soldiers and militia.

Notes and bibliography

1. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1037
2. Raportul lui Iancu indicates a different date, 25 April 1849.
3. Iosif Sterca-Sulutiu, Avram Iancu, p. 42
4. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1041
5. Rubin Patitia, Anul 1848/9 in Campeni, manuscript, p. 28-31
6. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1041
7. Vasile Moldovan, Amintiri, p. 124
8. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1042; A. Sever, Raspuns la Cartea Neagra, p. 59.
9. Rubin Patitia, Anul 1848/9 in Campeni, manuscript, p. 32
10. Iosif Sterca-Sulutiu, Ioan Dragos, p. 43.
11. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1043
12. Iosif Sterca-Sulutiu, Ioan Dragos, p. 54-55.
13. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1045
14. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1045-1046
15. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1046-1047
16. Raportul lui Iancu, p. 1048; Iosif Sterca-Sulutiu, Avram Iancu, p. 17.Gracza, Az 1848-49iki magyar szabadsagharc tortenete, p. 434


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Iamandi
Posted: May 01, 2007 07:22 pm
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Who whas/where in the back of the motzi as military experienced leader(s)? i ask these because is a clear thing - as some in "mineriade" - some guys haves military experience in organization and tactical deployment of the troops.

Iama
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Posted: May 01, 2007 07:37 pm
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I didnt found any specific info about certain persons qualified on military art along motzi leaders ranks.

It is certan known only the fact that a small number of romanian oficers and soldiers from border regiments joined motzi ranks.

Probably the most known and qualified person was major Pop Leon, comander of 17th border regiment (2 Walachische) from Nasaud(note 1). But I dont have any info (yet), about the fact that he gave sugestions to motzi leaders about military art.

The known fact is that the organisation in Legions was established by romanian revolutionary comitee from Transilvania, based at Sibiu.

note 1 - KOSSUTH ŞI GRĂNICERII ROMÂNI REÎNTORŞI DE PE RÂUL VÁG ÎN TOAMNA ANULUI 1848 by Gyorgy Spira, Budapest. Translated in romanian by Ludovic Bathory.


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Posted: November 07, 2007 04:43 pm
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Relatarea martorului ocular Iosif Sterca-Sulutiu, la pag. 28-29 din lucrarea mai jos amintita.
Eyewitness Iosif Sterca-Sulutiu, page 28-29, from the bellow mentioned book.

“Dupa o zi si o noapte, petrecuta asa precum vazuram ca am petrecut-o noi, sosi momentul decizatoriu: in 9 Mai dis-de-dimineata au inceput focul de tunuri si de pusti, cu vehementa; pe strada care duce catre Campeni, de-a lungul gradinei noastre, neintrerupt mergeau si veneau honvezii, chiar husarii, care ne pazeau pe noi, in acea zi, nu ne aveau grija; de trei ori au incercat in acea dupa amiaza a respinge pe “moti” de pe drumul de catre Carpenis; dara totdeauna s-au intors cu capetele sparte. A treia oara, cand s-au dus husarii intre injuraturi, a zis sergentul, ca daca se vor intoarce, ne vor spanzura pe toti de plopi, precum a mai spanzurat el in acea zip e niste Romani, carora mai intai le scosese ochii.
Abia a trecut o ora, numai ce vedem ca calul sergentului intra in curte, fara sergent, in fuga salbatica, plin de sange; dupa o alta jumatate de ora intra alti 3 husari in fuga mare. Si-au luat uneltele din grajd cu graba si s-au departat. Cand era sa iasa din curte, intrebai pe unul din ei: << Dar ce e?>> - <<Ce sa fie; fugim! Noi ne-am luptat in tara ungureasca cu neamurile de acolo, cu fel de fel de soldati regulate; pe toti i-am batut; dar iata ca mocanii acestia ne batjocorira. Acestia-s draci, nu-s oameni; isi trag palaria pe ochi ca sa nu vada moartea; apoi urla de ti se pare ca s-a deschis iadul, si dau navala. Pe sergent impreuna cu alti husari i-au inconjurat in apropiere de o moara si i-au taiat pe toti>>.”

Translation after romanian original:

“After a day and a night, spent as one saw that we spend it , it came the decisive moment: in the morning of 9th of May, canons and rifles opened fired, furiously; on the street toward Campeni, endlong our garden, continuously went and gone the honveds, even the hussars, which guarded us, in that day, but they didn’t cared about us; three times they tried that very afternoon to push back the Motzi from the way toward Carpenis; but each time they went back with their heads broken. …
After just an hour, we just see the hussar sergeant’s horse entering the courtyard, without the sergeant, running wild, full of blood; after another half an hour other 3 hussars entered courtyard in big run. They took their tools from the stable in a hurry and departed. When they were just to exit on street, I asked one of them: << But what is happening?>> - <<What is happening; we are running! We fought in Hungary with the nations from there, with sorts and sorts of regular troops; we defeated them all; but this mountaineers mocked us. These are devils, not humans; they put their hats on their eyes in order not to see death; then they yell as one can believe the gates of Hell broke loose, and they charge. The sergeant together with other hussars were circled near a mill and they were all cut to pieces>>.”

La anul 1784 si la anul 1849 – Material pentru partea a IV-a din Memoriul lui Iosif Sterca-Sulutiu de Carpenis
Autor: Iosif Sterca-Sulutiu
Sibiu – 1881
Se gaseste la (can be found at) Biblioteca Universitara Cluj-Napoca, cota S7851
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21 inf
Posted: November 25, 2007 08:24 pm
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(IMG:http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4683/c37img1lg5.jpg)

Prefect Simion Balint, romanian priest from Rosia Montana.
Participated at the fightings descibed above.
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Iamandi
Posted: November 26, 2007 08:49 am
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1. Ioan Dragos was caught at one momment and killed by motzi.

2. Look, another metion about "Totenkopf" unit(s)!

3. Most of the leaders were priests.

4. How about Toma Avramut? He was ex. millitary officer. Maybe he was one of the minds in the tactical thinking process?

Iama
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Posted: November 26, 2007 12:15 pm
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QUOTE (Iamandi @ November 26, 2007 08:49 am)
1. Ioan Dragos was caught at one momment and killed by motzi.

2. Look, another metion about "Totenkopf" unit(s)!

3. Most of the leaders were priests.

4. How about Toma Avramut? He was ex. millitary officer. Maybe he was one of the minds in the tactical thinking process?

Iama

I dont get the point about your post, but i'll try to answer.

1. Yes, Dragos was killed by moti, after the first battle with Hatvany.

2. Yes, about totenkopf legion, you'll found out more about this legion on my new site about Tara Motilor. They are mentioned by Ioan Rusu Abrudeanu in his 1928 book, it will be posible to be read entirely on the net.

3. Yes, they were mostly priests, but also lawyers, too

4. You'll read also on my new site about Toma Avramut; also, about Axente Sever, super very important info's wich made me believe that Avram Iancu's troops had at least some leaders with great military experience, as A Sever. Examples for A Sever: he had his troops organised as a batalion, entirely armed with fire weapons, 1 canon and highlly disciplined. Broke 3 times the hungarian cercle of Alba Iulia. Capable to fight by night. 300 men strong expedition for capturing hungarian food depots; and so on. All this info, very soon.

Just to take a blink, look at http://www.taramotilor.ro/index.htm and click on the cover "Motii, calvarul ...."

Romanian only. For the moment, I hope :)
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