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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > The post-WW2 and recent military > Combat IAR316 |
| Posted by: Jeroen April 13, 2009 12:48 pm |
| In the periode 1990-1993 (until 1995 or later?) Romania was operating 13-15 combat helikopters, IAR316 I believe!? Who can tell more about these (guided!?)rocket armed helikopters in Romanian use, a role comparable with Il2/Il10. When were they introduced, what unit flew them? I do not refer to the armoured IAR317 gunship but real gunships in actual service. Or where these IAR330 or Mi8TB? Which antitank rockets were used and at which training area was live firing with such rockets? There were other armed IAR 316 with 12.7mm MG etcetera, how many had such weapons modification? Gunpods? Or points to attach AK47 or other (MG) guns Interestingly for the CFE the AlouetteIII is a gunship as it could be equiped with pods for 18 or 36 HVAR rockets or AS11, AS12 armour-piercing missiles. (Netherlands had 91 Alouette III reported for CFE because they still had possibility to attach weaponrecks at hardpoints at fuselage though as far as I known such were not stored or obtained. Also no gunsight/optics for aiming was available). IAR 330 SOCAT was only later introduced in 1998, to replace IAR316(?), as I am correctly informed, while the Dracula attack helikopter projekt never materialized!? Jeroen |
| Posted by: Hadrian April 13, 2009 05:01 pm |
| Here you have a link with technical data and a picture with IAR-316 with rocket pods, and over them 3 rails each side for AT missiles (romanian built Maliutka). http://www.roaf.ro/en/dotare/iar316_en.php A second photo. http://www.paulnann.com/Make.asp?Make=IAR&Family=%20IAR.316&ImageRef=pn_w3651.jpg Also here on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_316 |
| Posted by: Jeroen April 13, 2009 05:37 pm |
| Thank you for your fine reply Hadrian! Interesting to see them also in their grey color scheme, nevertheless I would be very interested to learn more about their actual service in early periode. IAR316B number 59 was photographed at Kogalniceanu in august 2001 while flying with grupul 58 from Sibiu. When was the first armed IAR 316 introduced at Sibiu? Jeroen |
| Posted by: Vici April 19, 2009 12:35 pm |
| Jeroen, Romania did not have a dedicated anti-tank helicopter or helicopter unit in operational service until the SOCAT upgrade. The IAR-316B serial 59 in the picture linked by Hadrian was one of a kind, most likley used as a weapos test platform for the IAR-317 Airfox program - it has exactly the same racks, rails and pods as the 317, even the small 7,62mm machine gun pods on the lower sides of the nose. The usual armament scheme of the IAR-316 was with 4 UB-4 unguided rocket pods (each with four S-5 57 mm rockets), see here: http://www.paulnann.com/Country.asp?Country=Romania&Make=Sud+Aerospatiale&Family=SA%2E316&ImageRef=pn_w3736.jpg IAR-330L Puma had 4 UB-16 rocket pods (each with 16 rockets of the same type as on the Alouettes), two single-barrel NR-23 mm gun pods with 400 rounds each on the lower sides of the nose and a door-mounted DSKM 12,7 mm machine gun, usually on the left side. Mi-8T had 4 UB-16 rocket pods. All these 3 types of helicopters can be seen with the armament described above at the Aviation Museum in Bucharest. Some Pumas had above the UB-16 racks a total of 4 rails for AT-3 Sagger / Maliutka, but this was found extremley difficult to control after launch (it had MCLOS guidance), because of the helicoter's vibrations and lack of a stabilised sight. Apart from a few trial fires, it was never used in day to day training. As for the grey color, most Puma and Alouette overhauled in the 90's received a grey overall paintscheme (most dark grey, a few light gray). |
| Posted by: Jeroen April 19, 2009 12:52 pm | ||
Thanks Vici! Nevertheless I am still puzzled by my previous question. If Romania did not operate or have the capabilities why then did the MoD or MoExtAffairs report to the European CFE institution that in early 90-ies it actually had about 15 combat attack helikopters with AT capability? Did not AM either try to get AS11 or AS12 missiles along the license to build SA316? Did not some IAR316 also have door-mounted machine guns? Jeroen |
| Posted by: Vici April 19, 2009 01:01 pm |
| They probably declared the Pumas with AT-3 rails and roof mounted sights as "combat attack helikopters with AT capability" No idea if they tried to get AS-11 or 12 license. Of course all helicopters could be equipped with door-mounted machine guns if there was the need, but it was a more usual practice on the Pumas. |
| Posted by: Jeroen April 19, 2009 02:05 pm | ||
Which baza had those 15 Puma? |
| Posted by: Vici April 22, 2009 11:13 am |
| As said before, there was no dedicated unit using them, they were spread among the fleet at various bases. |
| Posted by: Jeroen April 22, 2009 12:31 pm |
| Thanks Vici Was there some standard number for iar316 making up one escadrila, or mixed iar316/330 escardila, or regimentul or grupul? How many IAR330 make up one escadrila, or grupul? How many flights within a escadrila? (For example a Dutch sqn with SuperPuma/cougar has 17 helies, 2 are operational reserve overhaul, with 3 flights of five each... ) Jeroen |
| Posted by: Vici April 24, 2009 10:20 am |
| Up until the early 90's each Helicopter Regiment had around 15 Pumas and 15 Alouettes. After the disbandment of dedicated helicopter bases in the early 2000's, the nominal strength of a Puma Squadron was 6, same goes for the Alouette training squadron at Boboc. Puma Socat squadrons were 12 each. The 713th Sqn located at Campia Turzii will soon operate 12 Puma, most of them upgraded to IAR-330M standard |
| Posted by: Jeroen April 24, 2009 01:45 pm |
| What happened to all that surplus IAR316 and IAR330 then? Sold to foreign countries? |
| Posted by: Vici April 27, 2009 04:56 pm |
| Of the 125 IAR-316 aquired by the Air Force, only around 10 are still in service - 7-8 with the Air Force and two with the Police. Most are retired and stored at Ianca, plus a few in reserve at Boboc. A handful were sold to private operators abroad, most will probably be scrapped in the future. There are no Pumas surplus. Only 10 ex-RoAF machines were sold to UAE in 1993-94. Some 60+ are now in service, some are in reserve (stored), and a relatively large number were lost (at least 4 in December 1989, 5 in a hangar fire at Sibiu in 1996, 5-6 in various accidents since 1994, plus the ones lost in accidents between 1974-1989 - number unknown). There's also 4 damaged / out of flight hours which are displayed in museums (2) or used as instructional airframes (2). 3 were stored at Ianca and recently scrapped. |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror April 27, 2009 05:36 pm | ||
I think there is another one belonging to SRI (I am not sure) |
| Posted by: Vici April 27, 2009 06:07 pm |
| Alouette no. 125 belonging to the SRI crashed on 19 June 2008, crew escaped. |