| QUOTE (MMM @ December 09, 2012 09:15 am) | | QUOTE (Florin @ December 09, 2012 04:55 am) | the collapse of the Romanian frontlines south and north of Stalingrad was the only defeat of the Romanian Army that really influenced the whole history of the world !
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Somehow it is so, somehow not, as the Romanian Army (the part of it that was there, because we still had 1-st Army on the new Romanian-Hungarian border) was just a part of the Eastern Front, mostly hold by the Wehrmacht; also, it is clear that not the Romanians were the initiator of the conflict (neither WWII, nor Barbarossa), but rather drawn into it without their will...
So the "mondial influencing role" of Romanians was just the proverbial small part that broke into the huge machinery, causing it to fail. IMO sooner or later the Wehrmacht would have been defeated with or without its allies failing to "hold the line". The superiority in soldiers and war materials (from USA, as well) had to eventually turn the tide.
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I agree that as usual the matter was much more complicated.
My words have nothing to do with the first paragraph of your answer.
Considering the second...
About your ".....So the "mondial influencing role" of Romanians was just the proverbial small part that broke into the huge machinery, causing it to fail."
When your automobile is becoming useless, it does not matter the reason. It could be a tiny fuse of one square centimeter. The bottom line is that your automobile, from that moment, is going nowhere.
| QUOTE | | IMO sooner or later the Wehrmacht would have been defeated with or without its allies failing to "hold the line". The superiority in soldiers and war materials (from USA, as well) had to eventually turn the tide. |
The tired Afrika Korps, with the long supply lines almost severed, was defeated at El Alamein independently of the Eastern Front. After that, Hitler sent them help anyway (including Tiger I tanks that should be better on the Eastern Front). With a victory at Stalingrad, they could be able to stop the British-American tide. By the way, if the British would not be able to decode the Enigma machine, things would be much better for Rommel in early 1943, even with the little forces he had.
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South of Caucasus Mountains, the Soviet engineers made sure to mine all petroleum refineries and related equipment. If the Axis would reach Baku, at least for the next half of year the gasoline would still have to be carried 1500 kilometers from Ploesti (and that is in straight line !!!).
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In Pacific, after a very, very impressive start, the Japanese were disappointing. A better performance could divert more American - British resources to that direction.
Just imagine if the Japanese would take Hawaii - after that their aircraft carriers could bomb San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle at will.
They did not try to invade India after humiliating the British fleet, off-shore Ceylon. Hitler begged them to do it. That was before Midway.
Discussing the Axis chances... Its defeat was a very lengthy and costly process, in history as it happened. After a German victory at Stalingrad, Soviet Union would keep fighting to the last man, but the most developed part of the country and the food sources would be under Axis control. (Yes, they moved the factories, but still it would be hard life.) The question is - how many years would be willing America and Great Britain to keep fighting? Both countries have democratic elections that may change everything.
Germany would be able to implement more "secret weapons" into the fray. But...
Me-262 was ready in April 1943, and the delay of one year and a half to mass production as fighter was due to bad decisions, not due to the frontline situation.
V-2 was a wonderful engineering feat, but the ratio of industrial effort versus achievement was too high. With a victory at Stalingrad, German scientists would have time to produce the version able to reach the American East Coast, and also the version with a guidance so good that was able to hit a maritime vessel (under research, to be ready by 1946). V-1 was a much cheaper vector to carry explosible, but not able to make a difference alone. The last series of submarines would be able to make a difference.
I think these last generation of submarines would be the only real "game changer".
However, most important of all, regardless Stalingrad, the Americans would be ready with the Atom bomb before the Germans. And of course, they immediately would mercilessly transform the Axis land into "no man's land". But something that is neglected regarding the A-bomb is that the technologies available in 1940...1945 were not able to produce fissionable material for a mass production.
Supposing Europe under total German control in 1945, after 1, 2 or 3 American A-bombs dumped there, there would be a pause of at least a half of year, before producing others. My understanding about the problem with the German A-bomb was not only due to lack of resources, but also a theoretical error. Because of it, they thought they could do it – but it would weigh 13 tons. Well, I guess with some "dung" dropped on their head by the Americans, they would either sue for peace, either (more probable) build an airplane able to carry 13 tons ! (something better than the "Gigant", not up to this job).
P.S: I did not introduce into equation those saying that a successful German A-bomb testing occured in March 1945, in our real history.
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