| QUOTE |
| Who is Valter Roman?Iama |
The father of Petre 'Pedro' Roman, the politician (who apparently doesn't have a single drop of Rumanian blood in his veins
).
Col. Dénes
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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > The Interwar Period (1920-1940) > Romanian voluntary units in Spanish Civil War |
| Posted by: Iamandi August 26, 2004 08:52 am |
| I have only data about an artylery unit, and nothing else... I need some help.
We have aviators in Spanish war? Iama |
| Posted by: Victor August 26, 2004 08:54 am |
| There were no Romanian units, but only Romanian volunteers in differeent international units. |
| Posted by: C-2 August 26, 2004 06:05 pm |
| Like Valter Roman. |
| Posted by: Dénes August 26, 2004 06:38 pm | ||
Born Neuländer (i.e., he wasn't Rumanian). Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: C-2 August 26, 2004 09:01 pm |
| He was a Romanian citizen!
Sorry,but for me religion doesn't count... |
| Posted by: Dénes August 26, 2004 09:07 pm | ||
It's not the religion, but the ethnicity that actually counts. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Iamandi August 27, 2004 06:33 am |
| My bad english fault. Ok . Romanian voluntary units. I read about one motorised artilery division / regiment. Who is Valter Roman?
Iama |
| Posted by: Dénes August 27, 2004 12:59 pm | ||
The father of Petre 'Pedro' Roman, the politician (who apparently doesn't have a single drop of Rumanian blood in his veins ).
Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Victor August 27, 2004 06:49 pm | ||
Valter Roman was a Communist activist who fought in Spain in the Republican International Brigades. He then took refuge in the USSR after the Nationalists won. He was part of the exiled wing of the Romanian Communsit Party (with Ana Pauker, Vasile Luca etc) and during the war was very active in the propaganda offensive among the Romanian POWs. He was, IIRC, teh chief political officer of the second Soviet sponsored Romanian-volunteer division: the Horia, Closca si Crisan Division. He was the father of 1990-91 Romanian prime minister Petre Roman. As for Romanian units in the Spanish Civil War, I repeat: there were none as far as I know. The most famous Romanian participation in that war was the Mota group (several members of the Iron Guard), but it wasn't big enough to man a company, much less a regiment. |
| Posted by: C-2 August 27, 2004 07:07 pm |
| [quote="Dénes"][quote]Who is Valter Roman?Iama[/quote]
The father of Petre 'Pedro' Roman, the politician (who apparently doesn't have a single drop of Rumanian blood in his veins ).
Col. Dénes[/quote A lot of Romanian politicians have no Romanian blood. Marko Bella for example :twisted: :twisted: |
| Posted by: Dénes August 27, 2004 07:32 pm |
| [quote]A lot of Romanian politicians have no Romanian blood.
Marko Bella for example :twisted: :twisted:[/quote] Markó Béla is an [ethnic] Hungarian politician from Rumania  [otherwise why would he fight for the right of Hungarians from Rumania? I am not aware Petre Roman to fight for the rights of Jewish or Spanish minorities from Rumania :wink: ]
Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: C-2 August 27, 2004 08:03 pm |
| As far as I know ,Petre Roman's mother was Spanish and Catholic.
Acording to the Mozaic(jewish) religion,a jew is a man who was born to a jewish mother!!!!! More,I saw on tv many times PR atempting dif.church activities and making the sighn of the cross. You won't EVER see a jew doing this. You live in Toronto,and you know what I meen! |
| Posted by: Dénes August 28, 2004 04:24 am |
| [quote]You live in Toronto,and you know what I meen![/quote]
You're right, C-2. I know exactly what you mean! :wink: Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: C-2 August 28, 2004 06:18 pm |
| :wink: |
| Posted by: Victor August 28, 2004 07:39 pm |
| Let's get back on topic. |
| Posted by: Iamandi September 01, 2004 12:06 pm |
| Day after day, with all my effort, i forgot to take the book or notices at work, to write about this artilery unit. The book is "Istoria artileriei romane in date" - "The history of romanian artilery by ...." - and one of his writers was G-ral Victor Stanculescu. Maybe, tomorrow is the day...
Iama |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror September 02, 2004 11:14 am |
| In spanish civil war fought a romanian comunist C Burca . When he was in romanian army he was in air force (maybe a mechanic , not a pilot). I do not know if he fought on a plane in Spain. |
| Posted by: Iamandi September 03, 2004 10:07 am |
| Oh, my god! Denes and C-2... Now, read this (from my book about Ro artilery):
Ianuary 1937 - Murcia Under the direct supervisation of the International Brigades Comissar is born first romanian volunteer unit - "Divizionul roman de artilerie" (Romanian artillery battalion) - and its commander was ... Ing. Valter Roman! The unit had have 2 batteries with 3 pieces of 75 and 77 m.m. February 12 - 1937 First action - fire in help of International Batallion "Edgar Andre" from XI Brigade (International). Press, "Reconquista" magasine shows about romanian voluntary unit - he had no maps, observation and communication equipment, but his efficiency was verry good - based on artilery help, "Edgar Andre" retake a higher position in vecinity of Alcaria. In one day, romanian unit fired 920 shells, repulsing 6 enemy attacks. .............................. 28.04.1937 Romanian unit now is a Regiment - "Regimentul roman de artilerie motorizata", under 35th International Division. Commander is again, Ing. Valter Roman, who is also the commader of all the division's artillery. One of the battery commander is Nicolae Cristea ex- worker at "Pirotehnia Armatei din Bucuresti", and one of battery servants is Vida Geza "artist al poporului " who realised monuments: "Monumentul eroilor din Carei", "Coloanele de la Moisei", "Rascoala", "Balad lui Pintea", etc. ........................ 15.03.1939 The unit has ended its existence, part of his members fight later in Frances as partisans. In week-end i ask my girlfriend for help me to translate more. I find some info about G-ral Korne, a little, and ... etc.
Iama |
| Posted by: C-2 September 03, 2004 08:00 pm |
| I think that Don Pedro will be interested :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: |
| Posted by: C-2 September 03, 2004 08:01 pm |
| We may find a street named after his father :evil: |
| Posted by: Stellan October 15, 2004 02:05 pm |
| I cannot find my documents. But telling from memory the Romanian Artillery Units were organized after the battle of Guadalajara where the Republicans captured a lot of Italian Guns. If I remember right one Arty Bn was called "Ana Pauker". I can be wrong but I think one was named "Gehorgiu Gehorgiu Dej" or something like that. Anyhow here is a picture of Walther Roman (in black baret) talking with "Ludwig Renn" aka Freiherr Arnold Veith von Golssenau (ex-Cpt Ger Art WW I) and COS of 11th International Brigade. |
| Posted by: dragos October 15, 2004 10:01 pm |
| The first battery of Romanian volunteers was named "Tudor Vladimirescu". In may 1937 at Almansa it was formed the "Romanian artillerymen group", named Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej. |
| Posted by: Stellan October 15, 2004 10:19 pm |
| What about "Ana Pauker"- was she not a high ranking Rum communist? |
| Posted by: dragos October 15, 2004 10:23 pm |
| Yes, but I don't think there was any artillery unit named after her. |
| Posted by: Stellan October 15, 2004 10:44 pm |
| I think she had an Arty Battalion named "Ana Pauker" - but must try to find my documents on Sp Ciw War. So far I only found Infantry. But I think there was also a Rum Inf Coy in one of the "Mixed Balkan" Btns. Will try to find it. But in the whole Rum were running the Arty in the Repubilican Ejercito Popular. |
| Posted by: Stellan October 16, 2004 01:50 pm |
| So I found some of my notes on IB Arty in SCW. In Spring 1937 the 2nd Arty Bn (II Grupo) "Ana Pauker" was formed. CO Maj Agard (Fr) later Maj Szánto Zoltan "Baller" (Hung) Formed by expanding Bty "Agard". 1st Bty "Ana Pauker" 2nd Bty "Pasionara" 3rd Bty "Asturias" Stellan |
| Posted by: dragos October 16, 2004 02:23 pm | ||
I could not find any information on this unit in the book Istoria artileriei romane (Romanian artillery history). Did it have Romanian artillerymen ? |
| Posted by: Iamandi October 18, 2004 06:51 am |
| Why - in that period - a unit named after Ana Pauker? And in my book is not mentioned "AP" or "Gh.Gh.D"... Iama |
| Posted by: Stellan January 07, 2005 09:21 am | ||
I think Ana Pauker at that time was a high ranking member of Komintern living in Moscow. |
| Posted by: jivana November 18, 2005 04:32 pm |
| I loked up the Spanish sites about the topic. In the websites you find very few informations. I´ll try to resume/recopilate them out of my memory: Yes, there were Romanian voluntiers, most of them fought on the republican (=comunist) side. As to the airoplanes: on the franquist side, where also German and Italian voluntiers were included, they had 1249 aeroplanes on the republican side with Russians and the International Brigade (here were also the Romanian voluntiers) they had more than 1300 aeroplanes. So it could have been possible that there were also Romanian pilots. There were also many Romanian Jewish voluntiers in the brigades. One of the most important men was general Kleber (his origin is different in the texts I read: Hungarian, Romanian, Jewish, Russian??), whose original name was Manfred Stern (this sounds German), he was in charge of the XI International Brigade which was very important defending Madrid on Nov. 6th, 1936. He died captive in Siberia. The above mentioned artillery brigade "Tudor Vladimirescu" was led by José Epstein (born Andrej), originally from Poland. This battery was important at the "Batalla del Ebro" of Jan. 1938. As to Walter Roman (written with "W") I found out that his wife, a Spanish refugee of the Spanish Civil War was initiator of the Spanish emission of a Romanian Radio. Walter Roman had fought in the Internationalö Brigade in the Spanish Civil War. I also read something about the American Author Ernest Hemingway (he also fought in the Spanish Civil War), he must have mentioned Roman in one of his literary works. So this is a resume from the things I remember, maybe I get more informations and I can give more and concrete informations with the exact sources. All these informations are without guarantee ;-) You can find the web sites by looking up for instance the key words "guerra civil española" and "Rumanía" (written with "u"). I think Spanish is easy to understand for Romanians. Greetings |
| Posted by: Imperialist November 18, 2005 06:23 pm |
| Are you from Spain Jivana? |
| Posted by: jivana November 19, 2005 03:19 pm |
| Partially, I lived a long time there, Imperialist. Greetings Jivana |
| Posted by: SiG November 20, 2005 10:28 pm |
| Do you people know in which of the "International Brigades" were this Romanian units included? AFAIK it was the Abraham Lincoln |
| Posted by: Dan Po November 21, 2005 10:19 am |
| Dragos can tell us for sure. He just have to check in "Istoria artileriei romane" - there are some informations about romanian artilery units who fought in Spain. |
| Posted by: Ruy Aballe November 22, 2005 11:34 am |
| Hola Jivana, This is a bit off-topic. Could you please indicate the work of Ernest Hemingway where he mentions Roman? The book that comes to mind, in what regards the SCW, is, of course, "For whom the bell tolls". There's nothing on it about Romanians fighting in Spain. The most up-to-date and historically balanced acount of the International Brigades in Spain in César Vidal's work, "Las Brigadas Internacionales", originally published by Espasa Calpe (Madrid, 1999). The book marked a progress in the study of the subject, since it is impervious to the pro-Communist clichés common in many books published abroad and, on the other hand, to the former Spanish regime propaganda. Of course, a maze of articles and monographic books on this issue have appeared over the last years, the vast majority of whose in Spain. As for Emilio Kleber (or Kléber, as the name is spelt sometimes in Spanish publications), he already had quite a "career" under this belt when the SCW broke out. His real name was Manfred Stern. He was born in 1896, in Czernowitz/Cernăuţi. The confusion regarding his place of birth and nationality is understandable; back then, it was a Austro-Hungarian town. Stern volunteered to serve in the k.u.k. army in 1914, having fought afterwards in Galicia. He was captured by the Russians and spent several months as a POW in Siberia. After the revolution, he managed to escape from captivity to fight in the Civil War, with the Reds. Later he went through the Military Academy, in Moscow. In Spain, he played an important role in the defence of Madrid. However, he disagreed with Gen. Miaja views and was sent to Valencia. After the death of another foreign advisor (ethnic Hungarian Lukács), he was reinstated as commander of the 45th Division. He returned to Moscow before the Republican defeat and disappeared (in 1939) in the Stalist purges then sweeping the Soviet Union. Ruy |
| Posted by: jivana November 22, 2005 10:57 pm |
| Hola Ruy, ¿qué tal? Thank you very much for all these very informative additional informations and details about Emilio Kléber and Walter Roman, which confirm, explain and amplify some aspects I found in the net. Sorry, at the moment I cannot answer your question, even if I was looking for the site during almost 2 hours. When I wrote my post about the Spanish Civil War on this thread I had just finished reading many different Spanish sites about the topic. After (unfortunatelly "after") I had read them I had the idea that it could be interesting for this forum to write down the things I remembered. Therefore I could not give the exact references. My contribution to this subject was just a hint for the interested, but I´ll try to find it out the next days. Un saludo cordial |
| Posted by: Ruy Aballe November 23, 2005 11:09 am |
| Hola, Jivana. Muy bien, gracias. Y tú, ¿qué tal? Intentaré colaborar con mi granito de arena... You are welcome. Please don't worry about my question. I was just a bit puzzled about Hemingway's mention about Romanian volunteers, but of course this is linked to my own perception of his famous novel "For whom the bell tolls", which is perhaps the most well known of his works. Besides, and also as a sort of side effect, produced when the name of the North American writer is referred jointly with the Spanish Civil War, the first thing that jumps to my mind is that book... even if he wrote several other novels and stories whose action is set in Spain, both before and after "For whom..." In the meantime, I was told by a friend that a recent, deeply researched book on the post-Civil war Spanish POW camps contains some lists, ordered by nationality. Romanians do pop up here and there in very small numbers, in the midst of a staggering array of different nationalities. I will ask him to loan me the book. Bibliographic data is as follows: Javier Rodrigo - "Cautivos: campos de concentración en la España franquista 1936-1947", Crítica, Barcelona, 2005. ISBN:84-8432-632-2 Some foreign volunteers retained their pseudonyms even after capture, but in many cases the new Franquist military authorities managed to figure out the real ID of some prisoneers, especially those not fluent in Spanish. However, some Eastern European volunteers posed as French or Francophone nationals on some occasions, especially when fluent in French. Un saludo y hasta pronto, Ruy |
| Posted by: Dénes January 03, 2006 08:51 pm |
Rare stamps with the portraits of Iron Guard members Mota & Marin, KIA: [Photo: Hoffmann] Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: mateias December 26, 2007 08:37 pm |
| Romanian volunteers fought for both sides in the Spanish civil war. Mota and Marin, plus the old general Zizi Cantacuzino (WW1 veteran, commander of a border guard regiment) and other guys, including engineer Clime (future second-in-command of Corneliu Zelea Codreanu), fought alongside Franco's forces. Valter Roman and a lot more like him fought alonside the Communists. Hemingway was very impressed by them. However, I wonder if there were any Romanians alongside the ANARCHISTS (probably few know that the Anarchists's leaders were executed by NKVD commisars sent by Stalin to weaken the Republican side). In his turn, George Orwell preferred the Anarchists. The guy who wrote the "Animal Farm", the famous Communist fairy tale. |
| Posted by: Dénes December 26, 2007 10:11 pm | ||
I doubt Valter Roman can be called Rumanian.  Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: 21 inf December 26, 2007 10:25 pm |
| Is it Valter Roman actually Valter Neulander? |
| Posted by: Dénes December 26, 2007 10:33 pm |
| He was born Ernő Neuländer, in Nagyvárad/Oradea [Mare] in 1913, son of a rabbi. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: mateias December 28, 2007 09:37 pm |
| More info on Valter Roman, Romanian artillery unit, etc. on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valter_Roman |
| Posted by: mateias December 29, 2007 03:37 pm |
| This is the link to an interesting site on Jewish volunteers in this war, including Valter Roman. Quite a difference between Poland's and USA's participation, against Soviet Union. And nothing on Romania, except Valter Roman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Volunteers_in_the_Spanish_Civil_War |
| Posted by: Dénes December 29, 2007 03:47 pm | ||
Then why don't you expand the topic? Wikipedia is accessible to everyone... Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: mateias December 29, 2007 04:10 pm | ||
| It looks like Romanian volunteers fought alongside all factions in the Spanish Civil War. 1. For Franco: those sent by Corneliu Zelea Codreanu's Iron Guard - Mota, Marin, Gen. Zizi Cantacuzino, eng. Victor Clime, etc. 2. For the Communists: Valter Roman and many others. 3. For POUM/Trotzkystes/Anarchists: at this link http://www.fundanin.org/durgan1.htm
|
| Posted by: mateias December 29, 2007 04:38 pm |
| For Jivana and Ruy, I know very little about the Spanish Civil War and I can say there are practically no books on it translated into Romanian. That's why everyone who contributes to this forum helps me, at least, to understand how was possible that both sides contributed to over 1,000,000 victims. I found lot of info on the most important military commanders for the Reds on this site (including Kleber, aka Stern, and Valter Roman, aka Ernst or Erno Neulander). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Volunt...anish_Civil_War Long time ago I read a book written by a Spanish former Socialist mayor of a small town who barely escaped through Franco's revengeful campaign by being hidden under the floor. And this until a general amnesty ! Amazing book, and for me more attractive than the too-widely appreciated Hemingway's "For whom the bell tolls" (it's far better Orwell's "Homage to Catalunia"). Why? Because it's very similar to what happened in Romania when the Communists came to power and the anticommunist guerilla fighters had to stand up against them (i.e. the leader of the Northern Side of Fagarash Mountains). I lost it and maybe you can tell me author's name and book's title. Thank you. |
| Posted by: mateias January 07, 2008 08:39 pm |
| This site clarifies many sides of this topic. About 30,000 volunteers fighting in the International Brigades on Republican side (Communists, Anarchists, etc.). Over 40,000 books written on Spanish Civil War. And nothing translated into Romanian. At least not yet. Amazing! Very interesting the role played by Russian NKVD. I'm more confused than ever. http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj84/durgan.htm |