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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > ARR - Romanian Royal Aeronautics > Ion Dobran is 90 years old. |
| Posted by: C-2 February 05, 2009 09:39 pm |
| Today at 10 45 I was at his gate. I was allowed to enter the front door. Noty like Cantacuzino ,who always enters the servants door. Dobran was happy to see us. I gave him a silly but useful present. Cantacuzino,gave him a spiritual one. But I'll let him tell the whole story. Unfortunatly ,it is imposib. to post photos. I wonder why.   Edit: Photos added. Victor |
| Posted by: JulioMoc February 20, 2009 02:17 pm |
And there's my signed photo!!  I made a little story about Dobran's birthday for my blog (in portuguese, sorry): http://saladeguerra.blogspot.com/2009/02/evento-90-aniversario-de-ion-dobran.html I'd like to know more about that P-38 pilot that Dan Melinte found. Cheers!  |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino February 21, 2009 06:55 am | ||
It's about the fight of 22 july '44 ( one of the shutlle missions of 15th AF) when Lt Dobran chased a P-38 long distance, from Tecuci airfield to Dnestr river (Nistru). He missed the "american friend" due to guns malfunction and let him escape towards russian lines. Also one of his squadron fellow, Adj Morariu tried to attack the american fighter but he gave up when bullet tracers coming from the P-38 hit him. The detail of the batlle is written in the famous "Dobran war diary" Some years ago (in 2000) Dobran asked me to find the name of the pilot who got so lucky to escape alive and tell the story to his nephews. For Dobran's 90 birthday celebration I was lucky to find the name of this P-38 pilot: Lt. Henry G. Van Horn (O-763421) 48FS, 14FG, 15AF. Claims 1 victory on 19-Jul-44 and a probably victory on 22 july 44. And Van Horn recalls for 22 july 44: " ...Over the target we got into a hell of a fight. When enemy fighters jumped us I was unfortunate to find myself alone after breaking into four 109's coming from behind me. I saw I was in for it, so I hit the deck and headed for Russia alone. My radio was out, so I couldn't call for help. Three 109's stayed on my tail close enough for me to see the white prop spinners (Dobran's Bf 109 had an large white spiral). I dumped flaps and racked around to the right, and they missed me. I guess theyr gunnery wasn't so hot, or I would have had it then and there ( in fact Dobran's guns were not properly working) I caught one as he chandelled up, and gave him a good burst. I saw hits, and rolled over and started down from about 200 feet. I didn't see him hit, so it couldn't be confirmed (Probably Adj Morariu who got some bullets from the P-38 he chased). My gas was getting low, and I began to sweat getting over the front lines. When I saw Dniepr river ( Dnestr river) I was more at ease, but I was running out of gas, so I landed on a wheat field some twenty miles from my destination...." Van Horn story from the book "14 th Fighter group in WWII" By John W. Lambert. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino February 21, 2009 07:37 am | ||
Hello Julio, Congrats for the blog and for Dobran's 90 birthday article. I understand most of the part due to my latin origin. Also I discover in your article that Claudiu Stumer is a fisherman (pesquisador militar ) I didn't knew that  |
| Posted by: Bernard Miclescu February 21, 2009 09:09 am |
| I congratulate you being close to Mr Dobran at his 90 yo birthday. I hope he will be next august in Ghencea. Yours, bernard m |
| Posted by: Victor February 21, 2009 09:57 am | ||
I made the corections  |
| Posted by: JulioMoc February 22, 2009 07:22 pm | ||
Hi Dan, thanks for the kind remarks. Claudiu also told me that he could figure the article out reading in portuguese. And just a correction: fisherman in portuguese is written "pescador"; "pesquisador" is actually "researcher".  But we need to find more about Stumer's fishing skills. |
| Posted by: C-2 June 03, 2009 09:45 pm |
| http://www.jurnalul.ro/stire-special/pilotul-inamic-l-a-gasit-pe-internet-dupa-64-de-ani-510112.html |
| Posted by: Victor June 04, 2009 06:03 am |
| The only thing is that there were others that made the connection Barrie Davis - Ion Dobran years before the mentioned Polish citizen. |
| Posted by: Mihai Popteanu January 12, 2010 08:05 pm |
| News from www.aviatori.ro site : Bucureşti, 23 ianuarie 2010, la ora 10:30, la Muzeul Aviaţiei: Colonelul Barrie Davis, în vârstă de 86 de ani, unul din aşii aviaţiei militare americane din al doilea război mondial, va vizita România şi îl va întâlni pe Generalul Ion Dobran, unul din aşii aviaţiei militare române şi fostul său duşman în lupta aeriană de deasupra Ploieştiului. Această întâlnire neobişnuită a fost organizată de compania de filme Kogainon şi Muzeul Aviaţiei din Bucureşti. Colonelul George Sandachi, directorul muzeului, consideră această întâlnire un eveniment ieşit din comun şi de interes special. Colonelul Barrie Davis a pilotat un avion de vânătoare P51 care apăra valurile de bombardiere B-24 trimise să distrugă câmpurile petroliere româneşti în 1943 şi 1944. În una din misiuni, avionul lui Davis a fost atacat de Dobran care pilota un Messerschmitt Bf109 şi a fost avariat în aşa măsură încât a trebuit să se întoarcă la baza americană din Ukraina soivetică. Dobran, la rândul lui, a fost atacat de conducătorul brigăzii din care făcea parte Davis, şi avionul său a fost distrus. "Dar Dobran are dreptul să îşi afirme victoria, căci nici avionul meu nu s-a mai ridicat în aer după acel incident", spune colonelul Davis. Cei doi aşi ai aviaţiei militare vor fi primiţi la ambasada americană şi la Clubul Rotary din Bucureşti şi vor vizita zona de luptă din jurul Ploieştiului, precum şi cimitirul aviatorilor americani căzuţi în România în timpul bătăliei aeriene asupra Ploieştiului. Informaţii despre filmul documentar "Reign of Fire" pot fi găsite pe situl www.kogainonfilms.com . |
| Posted by: C-2 January 12, 2010 09:30 pm |
| Let's hope it wont became a circus... |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR January 13, 2010 04:25 am |
| It would be so cool if Lt. Henry G. Van Horn (O-763421) was still around and you could get the two of them together for a reunion. |
| Posted by: C-2 January 13, 2010 06:32 am |
| I don't know who are those who org. this meeting. Dobran is very exited ,and Julio have spoken with Barrie DAvies who is also. The problem is that they are 91 and 86. BD is going to fly for many hours,Dobran's health may change from day to day,and like I already told in private to some forum members,it's very important that the org. are decent,let the two to have their time and not suffocating them. I hope for a pleasent eveniment and not just for publicity for some. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 16, 2010 09:33 am |
| http://www.military.com/news/article/wwii-air-foes-to-reunite-as-friends.html?ESRC=eb.nl |
| Posted by: Victor January 23, 2010 02:03 pm |
| Here are some of the photos from the event. The Air Force Chief of Staff waiting for the American guests to arrive  The meeting:  The two former enemies, reunited after almost 66 years:  C-2  The Chief of Staff gives his speech:  Barrie Davis gives his speech:  General Dobran gives his speech:  Mytzu is getting a tan:  Barrie Davis receives the Taralunga painting (probably a copy):  |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 23, 2010 05:55 pm |
| Reuters picture http://iplextra.indiatimes.com/photo/04Pib7587E4NF http://www.fotoglif.com/f/i9yuftb9zbh2 |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 23, 2010 06:35 pm | ||
Some close up http://img651.imageshack.us/i/dobranandbarrie.jpg/ http://img651.imageshack.us/i/dobrananddavis.jpg/ |
| Posted by: C-2 January 23, 2010 08:06 pm |
| Dobran actualy survived the first day. Two more to go. Tom. a flight to Brasov via Ploiesti and Prahova Valley. A diner at Poiana Brasov. Monday a visit at the aviation academy in Brasov. Lets hope he'll be back in one piece. |
| Posted by: C-2 January 23, 2010 08:10 pm |
| Hey, I didn't know I have so much grey hair at the back of my head!!!!  |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 23, 2010 08:58 pm |
| And we should not forget the most important moment of the event. Dobran and Davis , hug each other as they meet for the first time. They were no more former enemies but best friends http://img694.imageshack.us/i/firstmeetfacetoface.jpg/ |
| Posted by: contras January 23, 2010 09:10 pm |
| It's very interesting, I saw at the news. C-2 and others, please keep us informed. Thank you. |
| Posted by: montana January 24, 2010 08:45 am |
| http://www.realitatea.net/un-pilot-roman-si-a-reintalnit-dusmanul-doborat-in-razboi_696767.html - - - - Full reportage today at Realitatea TV | Reporterii Realitatii | 19:15 The event from Brasov Aviation Academy will be public? |
| Posted by: MMM January 24, 2010 09:26 am |
| It's all so wonderful! But the cynical side of myself is wondering: should we really have awarded colonel Davis a medal? For bombing Romania? Gen. Dobran really deserved that medal, but by awarding it also to his enemy, wouldn't this lessen the value? |
| Posted by: C-2 January 24, 2010 12:16 pm |
| You are right! They must arrest Barrie Davies for war crimes and send him to jail. And as soon as possib.He's gonna leave in a day or two. Of course ,ther's a small problem-that he was in a fighter ,not a bomber,but who knows? Maybee a cardrige or something from his plane fell to the ground killing a chicken ar much worst-an ant! |
| Posted by: MMM January 24, 2010 12:27 pm |
| Oh, you're so funny! So, the fighters weren't fighting Romanians, right? Whatever you say, I still find hilarious the fact that our Romanian state awarded medals to both sides participating in this combat. If you wish, I'll rephrase it: instead of "for bombing Romania", I could say "for protecting those who bombed Romania" or mabe "for trying to kill those who wanted to defend Romania". Is it better now?!?! BTW, where did I wrote anything about war crimes or prison time? Next, you'll tell me I'm a Soviet era remnant  ) |
| Posted by: Vici January 24, 2010 01:36 pm |
| Well, you do have a point MM, but remember that medals given in peacetime (especially in Romania) are usually just political tools devoid of their original meaning. |
| Posted by: Mihai Popteanu January 24, 2010 02:19 pm |
| And I understand that is not a real order or decoration of Romanian state . It's just an honorary badge offered by the General Staff of the Air Force . |
| Posted by: C-2 January 24, 2010 03:02 pm |
| MMM ,you must be very young... Life is a funny place. I guess it's npthing comparing to a lot of other things. One day you are a hero,other day you are an enemy of the people.... What is life anyway.? In Herastrau and Cismigiu there are honorific plates to the American airmens who lost their life during the bombardments of Romania. What do you want from this eveniment anyway? |
| Posted by: MMM January 24, 2010 03:12 pm |
| Oh, so it's a honorary badge, then... This kinda changes the dates of the problem. And yes, the "political" character of all this makes me sick. In what other place in the world would this have happened? More precisely, what two countries adversary in ww2 would have done that? |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 24, 2010 06:27 pm | ||
Would have done what ? Meeting between ww2 former enemies were allready hapened in the past. Galland (Germany) and Tuck (Great Britain) is one of well known . http://www.rafhornchurch.thehumanjourney.net/pilot_pages/tuck.htm Of course oficials used this event with some political meaning ( as US Ambasador mentioned the Afganistan war ). |
| Posted by: Mihai Popteanu January 25, 2010 07:32 am |
| Is Dobran Officer of Aeronautical Virtue Order or just Knight ? I read in some newspapers that him is awarded with the officer class of the order . Who knows ? |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror January 25, 2010 07:48 am |
| Is Officer, I saw the medal at his home. For sure. |
| Posted by: Mihai Popteanu January 25, 2010 09:00 am |
| Thank you . Do you know the year then he received this class ? |
| Posted by: Alexei2102 January 25, 2010 12:13 pm |
| 29 iulie 1946 |
| Posted by: Mihai Popteanu January 25, 2010 12:23 pm |
| Thank You Alexei ! |
| Posted by: C-2 January 26, 2010 10:29 am |
| Just spoke with Gen Dobran. After the first meeting with Barrie Davies at the Av Museum,and the restaurant,he had a sleepless night. At 8 he was taken to Otopeni airport and from there ,in two Puma helicopters,the whole delegation went to Prahova valley.They flew very low and it was great. Landed in Ghimbav ,where the temp were -28C. From Ghimbav to Poiana Brasov where in an 8 story new bulding they had a conference and a meal. LAter they went to a recuperation center of jet pilots. On Monday they went to Brasov at the Aviation Academy where another conf. took place. From there to Ghimbav and ia Prahova V. back to buc. Here they were invited by Gen ? Stanciu to a meal,and later for a short visit to Cotroceni.Basescu wasn't prezent. At the evening they had a nice party ant the "Cercul Militar".A traditional Romanian evening took place.A lot of music and dancing.At the end,23H a violonist came between BD and ID and played Lily MArlene.BD sang with him. |
| Posted by: 21 inf January 27, 2010 11:34 am |
| Why mister Dobran had a sleepless night? The meeting with former enemy raised old memories from war? |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror January 27, 2010 01:34 pm |
| He was very involved, emotional... In the Honor Book of Aviation Museum he wrote ,,O intalnire de vis...'' |
| Posted by: 21 inf January 27, 2010 05:17 pm |
| All the respect for mister Dobran! |
| Posted by: C-2 January 27, 2010 06:54 pm |
| Well,in fact he hasn't been sleeping for over two weeks.... |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu January 27, 2010 09:03 pm |
some pics from the event:       more here: http://www.aripiromanesti.ro/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5059 |
| Posted by: Dénes January 30, 2010 09:26 am |
| Great photos, great event. By the way, who is that bald guy, dressed sharply (third photo, centre)? Some sort of totum factum? Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror January 30, 2010 02:24 pm |
| he don t look Romanian... |
| Posted by: C-2 January 30, 2010 02:50 pm |
| He's very Electric..... |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu January 30, 2010 10:17 pm |
| you know him Denes, he keeps in touch with you for books sold by Aripi Romanesti ONG He is Dragos Dobre aka Electric, Vice President of Aripi Romanesti :] |
| Posted by: Dénes January 31, 2010 08:16 am |
| I knew that, Mytzu! I just liked the photo, where he is in the centre of the stage, smartly dressed, apparently in charge of the event... Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: C-2 January 31, 2010 12:39 pm |
| Poor electric is still alive? I wonder if he didn't froze that day.... Btw,who is the PRESIDENT? |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu January 31, 2010 01:27 pm |
| Pick me, pick me ! |
| Posted by: mabadesc January 31, 2010 05:02 pm |
| I've been following this event through this thread and would like to congratulate and say thanks to the organizers (C-2, Mytzu, Dragos & and others) who organized this get-together. Great job, guys! Veterans from WWII are quickly fading away and disappearing, so this is especially admirable. By the way, any survivors from the Flying Circus? C-2/Mytzu/Dragos - did Dobran know Marinescu (the pilot who wrote "Bate Clopotul in Gulag")? I believe Marinescu passed away in 2000, but they may have known each other during the war. Once again, my respects and admiration to the organizers who made it possible. Time is running out.... |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu January 31, 2010 09:59 pm |
| I'm afraid we were not organizers, we just heard about the event 3 days before it happened. I don't know if Dobran knew him but I know a distant nefew of his (actually he was the one who gave me his book to read). |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror February 05, 2011 07:44 am |
| Today he is 92 years old. I wish to him get 100 (at least) and happy Anniversary |
| Posted by: MMM February 05, 2011 09:58 am | ||
Me too! No fancy aniversary this year, no American friends, nothing - very "crisis-like"... |
| Posted by: ovichelu February 05, 2011 04:22 pm | ||||
Let`s just wish him a long an healthy life ! |
| Posted by: C-2 February 05, 2011 06:25 pm |
| I just talked with him. He's well,just returned wrom a "Bridge". Also talked with Barrie Davis who sent Dobran his warm regards. |
| Posted by: RedBaron February 06, 2011 10:02 pm | ||||||
+1 |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino February 07, 2011 10:28 am | ||
He was celebrated by his "Bridge" parteners in the morning. In the afternoon me and a friend Lucian visited Dobran at home. He waited us with cake and cofee, we gave him some presents ( the book Romanian Fighter Colours), drink red wine and talk a lot ( almost 2 hours). He was very healthy and happy to tell us war stories. http://img546.imageshack.us/i/80380598.jpg/ Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror March 03, 2011 05:04 pm |
| I just found this in the EvZ Newspaper http://www.evz.ro/detalii/stiri/lucian-dobrovicescu-dobran-e-bunicul-pe-care-si-l-ar-dori-oricine-921779.html I know Mr Dobrovicescu and I trust him. Btw, what do you think about the poster? I really like it! |
| Posted by: Dénes March 03, 2011 08:39 pm | ||
The text has a few "frills" that should have not been included. For example: "Aviatorii români şi nemţi se cunoşteau, era o cafteală dorită, se rugau la Dumnezeu să se întâlnească în aer." Such unnecessary exaggerations may compromise the whole outstanding and true story of Mr. Dobran and his comrades, which indeed must be told - the way it was... Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Radub March 04, 2011 09:28 am |
| Sadly, this kind of writing style is gaining a massive foothold in Romania. It is sensationalist and emotive. I am always surprised by the "hunger" of the Romanian readers for such journalism that "tugs at the heartstrings". Somehow, there is also a kind of displaced "heirupism" about the text - it comes across as if is a boxing commentator is writing about a rugby match between the local amateur team and the All Blacks. The story of Romanian aviation is amazing enough without hyperbolas. Radu |
| Posted by: Dénes March 04, 2011 06:15 pm | ||
My thoughts, exactly. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: PanzerKing April 11, 2011 06:02 pm |
| You guys are so lucky to meet men like this. I've never met any WW2 pilots except Americans. I'd love to meet some Axis veterans. Thanks for the pictures. |