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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > ARR - Romanian Royal Aeronautics > AVIATOR ID SEARCH |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 28, 2011 06:11 pm |
| hello gents, i just received this wonderfull gift from a good friend of mine so i want to find out more about this aviator. Name Ciovica Constantin Iron Cross awarded died 1946 in crash(this i know untill now) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/ciovicaaviatorwatermark.jpg/ many thanks in advance!  |
| Posted by: yugit November 28, 2011 06:21 pm |
| Seeker One interesting thing I've noticed on the photo at first sight is his RAF type flying helmet and some of the flying coverall ( uniform) seems to fit the pre war era or early 40's I will look for you at Vanatorul IAR-80 maybe he's mentioned in there. BR Alex |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 28, 2011 08:48 pm | ||
I'm sorry but you are wrong! Helmet is german, i had for sale different types and the trousers are a model derivated from kanalhose(wool interior for cold weather). See pictures. this is the type of helmet, at my model the headphones were missing, as you can see. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/89172448.jpg/ and the german trousers/ kanalhose http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/indexlb.jpg/ |
| Posted by: yugit November 28, 2011 09:17 pm |
| Seeker I still think that isn't a Luftwaffe helmet, 3rd airman left of Serbanescu wears a helmet which can be of a Rumanian or German origin flyer /gunner type helmet . The helmet you displayed on your photo is not the typical fighter pilot helmet of the Luftwaffe. The person on your photo seems to wear an RAF B Model fighter pilot helmet ... also part of the flyers coverall seems to be RAF pattern. check attachments http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img59/3676/284hw.jpg&via=mupload&newlp=1 http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img88/9185/gerofflieghalf.jpg&via=mupload&newlp=1 Alex |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror November 28, 2011 09:18 pm |
| I donţt see the picture zou posted, so I may talk about someone else... there was a pilot named Ciovică who died in a plane crash, but in 1948 or 49. Anyway, in that sommer between 15 and 20 Romanian pilots died because they were accepted as commanding officiers in aviation thanks to their communist background. But, unfortunally, the planes (and especially Nardi) were not impressed by their political background, and so many crashed... bloody kapitalist planes! This Ciovică was the leader of 1948 or 49 promotion |
| Posted by: horia November 28, 2011 10:06 pm |
| Ciovica Constantin brevet nr. 2939 from 27 02 1946 Died with Nardi nr. 162 date unknown |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 28, 2011 10:44 pm |
| http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img88/9185/gerofflieghalf.jpg&via=mupload&newlp=1 Alex [/QUOTE] the helmet you've posted is Netzkofhaube, for summer. and is one of the many german types used. here same model as mine but canvas not leather http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/93d2498ad711ddbbbafafb2.jpg/ |
| Posted by: yugit November 28, 2011 11:43 pm |
| Seeker The Luftwaffe employed various types of helmets based on their operational needs. The fighter pilots used distinctively an other helmet type than those who flew bombers and transports. An other helmet type was worn by the gunners and other crew members. The RAF B type helmet can't be confused due to the zippers securing the stowed earphones (commset ) and due the shape of hearcups. As you may be aware of , AAR used prior WWII flight gear made UK in parallel with German, Italian and Rumanian manufactured stuff. Is very hard to argue regarding the type depicted, on the pic but for sure it isn't a typical Luftwaffe type. The type and size of the earphones were dependent upon the transciever (radio) type used by IAR-80 model. AAR ME-109 pilots used a typical Luftwaffe fighter pilot helmet. http://img855.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img855/5633/71254682.jpg http://img828.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img828/8905/scannen0001um.jpg Alex |
| Posted by: Dénes November 29, 2011 06:17 am | ||
Are you sure of the aircraft's number? It seems to be very high. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Radub November 29, 2011 09:13 am |
| OK, let us take them all one by one. There is no "RAF-type" flight gear in any of these photos. The helmet looks like a "Type B" helmet, but it is not. Ciovica is wearing a (Siemens) LKp W100 winter flying helmet with Auer model 295 Windschutzbrille and Kanalhosen. In the photo with Serbanescu as well as Seeker's item, the leather helmet is a Model K-33 Luftwaffe "unwired" flying helmet. In the photo of the pilot standing in front of the FW189, the pilot is not wearing a "netzkophaube" because, as it is clearly evident, there is no "netz"... The helmet is a (Siemens) LKp S100 summer flying helmet. He is wearing the same Auer goggles. He is also wearing a Sommerfliegerkombi suit. Hth, Radu |
| Posted by: yugit November 29, 2011 09:58 am |
| Radu Thanks for your thorough research.I opened one my books called " Luftwaffe vs.RAF Flying Equipment " period 1939-1945 by Mick J.Prodger. The Siemens flying helmet LKpS100 with rigid frame Nitsche and Guenther splitterschutzbrille including O-2 Mask 10-67 were mainly used on bomber,recon and transport acfts (seeker photo FW-189 pilot) but not on fighters. I tend to disagree that the IAR-80 pilot is wearing the LKps100 especially due to the oval shapped earphone hearcups nearing the shape of of the RAF B model Pse check attachment which I scanned from the book. Also an attachment from "Soviet Aces of WWII" depicting the Baltic Fleet pilot Maj.B.Safonov wearing the " B " type RAF helmet. Also a group photo of Reinek and his Sqd mates wearing RAF early pattern life preservers. I therefore believe that various IAR-80 pilots used some RAF gear including helmets & coveralls. http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img189/5091/40890330.jpg&via=mupload&newlp=1 http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img59/7610/scannen0001u.jpg&via=mupload&newlp=1 http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img207/2433/80226reinek.jpg&via=mupload&newlp=1 Alex |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 29, 2011 10:37 am |
| Radu, i had 2 different types(of many) 1 without wiring http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/dsc0897ng.jpg/ 2. and one that had wiring and throat microphones but i found it incomplete. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/28017106.jpg/ |
| Posted by: yugit November 29, 2011 10:41 am |
| Seeker, can you scan the main photo head portion in order to enable a better view of the helmet ? Thanks Alex |
| Posted by: Radub November 29, 2011 12:32 pm |
| Yugit, I have both volumes of Prodger's RAF vs Luftwaffe books as well as his book on helmets only. I also have the Briad Davis books on LW uniforms and insignia as well as a couple of Japanese books on the subject. I can tell witho9ut a single shadow of a doubt that the pilot is not wearing a RAF helmet. I have that photo (most likely from the same person who gave it to Seeker) and I can tell you that it is a Siemens-type wired helmet. If Seeker wishes to post an enlargement of the photo, you will see. Seeker, I am not sure what the helmet in the first photo is. The second photo is neither a LKp W100 or LKp W101. I doubt it was ever "wired". It may nit even be German. The best way to tell what type of helmet you have is to look for the label inside the helmet. All Siemens helmets were labelled with the manufacturer logo and marked the FL Luftwaffe catalogue nubmer. All German equipment was given a FL code that was stamped clearly. Unless you have a FL code, you do not have a German helmet. If you have the FL code, please give it to me and I will check it against the catalogue numbers I have. You must keep in mind that Romania also manufactured some of the German flight gear postwar and used locally-made equipment matching German specification. For example, if you go to the Aviation Museum in Pipera, you will see a couple of mannequins wearing Romanian-made "Kanalhosen" and Romanian-made LKp S100/101 helmets. HTH Radu |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 29, 2011 12:48 pm |
it's german siemens fliegerhaube  http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/cascasiemens.jpg/ |
| Posted by: yugit November 29, 2011 12:52 pm |
| Radu, Your remarks well noted and I will revert with an update at a later point in time . Since you mentioned a couple of book titles which I dont have the fortune to posses them yet, maybe you mind to tell me if the airmen near the FW-189 is wearing an immersion suit ( hypothermia water protective related type ) or just a flyers coverall. I saw that suit mostly on those who crossed the channel and those who headed on extended missions over water. Thanks Alex |
| Posted by: Radub November 29, 2011 01:19 pm |
| Yugit, the pilot in front of the 189 is wearing a garden-variety run-of-the-mill Sommerfliegerkombi flight suit. This was used on all fronts. I am not sure what you mean about an "immersion suit" but the main item that pointed that someone was about to fly over water was a flotation device/lifevest, either kapok-filled or inflatable. Hth Radu |
| Posted by: yugit November 29, 2011 02:01 pm |
| Radu Immersion suit is one thing and life preserver is an other thing. Immersion suit is to protect the airman while ditching into the cold water ( against hypothermia) means protecting the body against loss of heat and insulation against moist , the life preserver or so called life jacket is to sustain airman body during floatation. Seeker Thanks for the scan |
| Posted by: Radub November 29, 2011 02:15 pm | ||
Yugit, I think that everyone here got what an "immersion suit" may be... the clue may possibly be in the name, i.e. a "suit" intended for "immersion".  What I do not understand is why you think that the suit in that picture is an "immersion suit" especially after you stated that you have Prodger's book on flying clothing, which illustrates it clearly from Pg.84 onwards. Just reading the book you said you have should answer all your questions about that suit. The other volume of Prodger's two-part work on flying clothing and pilot survival gear shows a few types of life preservers (as well as dingies and survival-at-sea equipment). HTH Radu |
| Posted by: yugit November 29, 2011 03:12 pm |
| Radu I didnt say I have all volumes, pse review my post, secondly I have only one volume and at the page 84 and onwards there's nothing described what you just stated but RAF escape box and boots....etc so don't rush to judgement on something I didnt say or you may think I said. This suit was worn extensively over water ops thats why I have asked...and because is no where in my book, period |
| Posted by: Radub November 29, 2011 03:42 pm | ||
Yugit, You told me that you opened your Prodger book and there you found "information about the helmets and goggles". There are two Prodger volumes on RAF and Luftwaffe pilot equipment, which are separated into one volume on "Flight clothing" and one volume on "Flight gear". The helmets and goggles are explained in the Prodger book about "flight clothing". Apart from describing the helmets and goggles, that volume also explains the suits, and that Luftwaffe standard run-of-the-mill suit that baffles you appears on page 84. Now, you say that you only have the volume on "flight gear", which actually does not explain the helmets, goggles or flight suits. This is the volume that covers safety and survival gear. Yes, on page 84 this book is has British boots. That book is no good as a reference on helmets. It is good for parachutes, dingies, flares, rations, etc, but not helmets. That suit has always been associated with the Luftwaffe bomber crews. It has nothing to do with water. It is standard equipment. If you ever watched any movie about the Battle of Britain, you will see it all over the place. The movie Battle of Britain has it in almost every scene showing a German bomber crew. Also, in any wartime photo of the interior of a German bomber, the crew is wearing that suit. Google it! In fact, that suit is so synonimous with Luftwaffe bomber crews that it is almost as instantly-recognisable as the "coal-scuttle" helmet. In any case, I said what I had to say, you can choose to believe me or not. Radu |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 29, 2011 05:32 pm |
GUYS!!!! I NEED INFO ABOUT THIS PILOT! NOT THE ENCICLOPEDIA OF GERMAN HELMETS AND GOGGLES! |
| Posted by: horia November 29, 2011 07:01 pm |
| Another short info: Ciovica died during a training flight with he's student Ionescu V. |
| Posted by: Radub November 29, 2011 07:34 pm |
| Seeker, There are a number of inconsistencies in relation to the ribbon that made you think he was the bearer of the Iron Cross. First of all, he stands in front of a I.A.R.80-B of the series 291-300 wearing cockades. The series 291-300 was manufactured in February 1943. So, a combination of the type of aircraft and markings indicates that the photo was taken after September 1944. Had it been an earlier-type of I.A.R.80, one could have made a plausible argument that the photo was taken before May 1941, alas, no chance...  So, how wise was it to wear German awards at a time when Germany was the enemy? Are "enemy sympathisers" popular with brothers in arms? Just wondering... Also, in as far as I understand from the person who gave me the photo, Constantin Ciovica got his pilot licence (No.2939) on 27.02.1946. So, there is no single chance, not even the slightest, that he was awarded an Iron Cross in 1946 when the Communist party was gaining in popularity and all "fascists" were getting into all kinds of troubles. I suspect that the ribbon is something else. If that is indeed an Iron Cross ribbon (which makes him either very brave or very stupid), then it ain't his. HTH Radu |
| Posted by: yugit November 29, 2011 08:39 pm |
| I will make a short statement because is getting out of topic. Like anyone else I saw the Battle of Britain and you can imagine that after many years of research I neither gamble or exagerate with my statements. The summer flyers coverall you've mentioned may have been a standard equip.but if you would start a new topic I can get you a duzin of photos of bomber pilots and crews wearing a wide varitey of other summer coveralls types ,period. |
| Posted by: Radub November 29, 2011 09:20 pm | ||
Yugit, you are pertectly entitled to disagree. I said all I had to say on that matter. Radu |
| Posted by: horia November 30, 2011 10:34 am |
| Just found 2 other fotos in my collection with Ciovica. On the back of the one with PWs is written Fotografiat la un avion PWS tip Polonez. Elev cap. C I Ciovica http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/dsc07774q.jpg/ Uploaded with http://imageshack.us http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/dsc07772e.jpg/ Uploaded with http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Radub November 30, 2011 12:16 pm |
| One of the airfcraft is wearing crosses and the other is wearing cockades (or it seems so... it is unclear) while he was a "student". Looks like he began his pilot course around the time when the change of national insignia took place. Radu |
| Posted by: Ferdinand December 08, 2012 09:13 am |
| Can someone give me information about this man? Caloianu Ghe? Thanks! http://minus.com/lbaCHe66ZsBpNF http://minus.com/ll5T5mJrqsIbC |
| Posted by: Antoniu December 10, 2012 05:07 am |
| Horia sunt corecte datele de brevetare cu mentiunea "brevetat pilot de vanatoare pe avion IAR-80". Datele accidentului in care Ciovica I.D. Constantin si-a pierdut viata: Centrul de Intructie al Aeronauticii Focsani. In ziua de 20.07.1949. s-a executat un zbor de instructie pe Nardi Nr.162, instructor Slt. Ciovica Constantin, elev Ionescu V. angajati in viraj urmat de vrie, membrii echipajului morti, avionul reformat. Dan Antoniu |
| Posted by: Taz1 July 24, 2013 09:55 am |
| I post here in order not to start another topic . Did somebody has informations regarding a pilot named Ioan Lup ? He was a fighter pilot, lieutenant during the war. He died in 2004 as a retiered general There is a list of all romanian pilots durind ww2 ? Many thanks. |
| Posted by: Alexandru C. July 24, 2013 12:11 pm |
| I found something here: http://www.rasunetul.ro/zborul-din-august Maybe he is the pilot! Alexandru |
| Posted by: Dénes July 24, 2013 06:06 pm |
| I couldn't find any info on Ioan Lup and his grave accident mentioned in the story. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino July 25, 2013 07:19 am |
| From a picture with an accident of a IAR 37 no 43 on 2 nov 1940 at R. Sarat, it is written one of the member of the crew ( the observer) named Slt. Lupu I. ( Flotila3, Esc 17 Obs.) Most probably this is the airman who are looking for. (I doubt that was a fighter pilot) |
| Posted by: Taz1 July 25, 2013 01:28 pm |
| Many thanks for answer. I think this is the pilot I was looking for. Cantacuzino do you have the picture with the IAR 37 ? |
| Posted by: Mihai Popteanu July 25, 2013 05:54 pm |
| Slt. rez Lupu Ioan was awarded with Golden Cross Class of Aeronautical Virtue Order by I.D.R. nr.2840/11.10.1941 published in M.OF. nr. 249/20.10.1941 for : " Sublocotenentului rez. Lupu Ioan " A descoperit 8 baterii de A.A. inamica. A executat 5 foto cu rezultate bune. Are 32 misiuni la inamic sburand cu curaj si infruntand atacurile A.c.A inamic, prin barajele caruia a trecut de 7 ori. " Slt. rez Lupu Ioan was awarded with First and Second Bar Golden Cross Class of Aeronautical Virtue Order by I.D.R. nr.539/20.02.1942 published in M.OF. nr. 51/28.02.1942 for : " Sublocotenentului rez. Lupu Ioan pentru curajul si spiritul de sacrificiu cu care a executat cele 54 misiuni de conlucrare si bombardament cu rezultate din cele mai stralucite. Desi ofiter de rezerva a dovedit cu prisosinta ca este la inaltimea sburatorilor de elita. " |
| Posted by: Taz1 July 27, 2013 09:10 pm |
| Thanks to all for information.I will pas this information to mrs Ioan Lup daughter. |
| Posted by: Antoniu July 30, 2013 02:49 pm |
| Ioan Lupu was air Obrevator |