http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=menakiimanierki0kv.jpg
this (inside red line) look like italian modell 1933. Licence or purchases in Italy?
sorry for my english
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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > Small arms, Daggers & Uniforms > Romanian kitchen equipment |
| Posted by: maxikasek May 21, 2006 09:26 pm |
| Hello, I'm a collector from Poland. I seek a good photos and info about canteen, mess kit, spoon-fork combo and individual cooks used in Romanian Army 1900-45. Type, how was marked? Can You help me? I have two romanian canteen. First look like Austrian-Hungarian modell 1888 - http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128xm1.jpg Second- (in red circle) http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10004186ll.jpg |
| Posted by: maxikasek May 21, 2006 09:37 pm |
| I saw photos in your forum, and i have question. http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=menakiimanierki0kv.jpg this (inside red line) look like italian modell 1933. Licence or purchases in Italy? sorry for my english |
| Posted by: mihnea May 22, 2006 07:58 pm |
| Unfortunately there aren't any studies made on Romanian mess kits used in the first and Second World War. Take a look here: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2884&st=0 I'm not sure about your two canteens especially the first one as the text doesn’t seem to be in Romanian. The aluminum one could be Yugoslavian unless you post better pictures of it. I also noticed that the canteen is very similar to the Italian WWII ones, but I don't know when they were bought or made. PS I believe this topic is in the wrong place. |
| Posted by: maxikasek May 23, 2006 06:19 pm |
| sorry, i have a request for admin to transfer this topic to Small arms, Daggers & Uniforms. First is made in BUCURESCI (Bucarest in romanian language?). second is romanian, but have remove paint. is look like this http://img488.imageshack.us/my.php?image=011tu8co.jpg . |
| Posted by: mihnea May 24, 2006 08:03 pm |
| In Romanian Bucharest is written "Bucuresti", that's why I doubt the first canteen. If you can tell me the rest of the text I could tell you if it is Romanian or not. The last picture you posted is a Yugoslav canteen very similar to the Romanian ones in shape but bigger, if you send me the dimensions of your aluminum canteen I'm going to tell you if this one is Romanian or not. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR May 28, 2006 06:21 pm |
| This German made aluminum cup and plate stamped with the Romanian eagle crest insignia of officers quality were found in the Ukraine. Recently on Ebay. http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=officersplate2od.jpg Plate |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR May 28, 2006 06:23 pm |
| http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plateinsignia3tg.jpg Insignia on plate. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR May 28, 2006 06:24 pm |
| http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=officerscup0kd.jpg Aluminum cup. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR May 28, 2006 06:25 pm |
| http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cupinsignia6lg.jpg Insignia on cup. |
| Posted by: Wings_of_wrath May 28, 2006 06:52 pm | ||
Mihnea, there was a time when "Bucuresti" was spelled "BUCURESCI"... Unfortunatelly for the canteen, that was back in the 19th century.... However, there is a town by that name in the Hunedoara distict. I agree with you that the dimensions and photograph of the text are needed in order to correctly identify the object. EDIT: Apparently, in the mid 20s the spelling for the capital was still "Bucuresci", as can bee seen from an 1921 copy of Encyclopedya Britannica (Volume V04, Page 718) where the entry on the town features that paticular spelling, as well as a book named "Buletinul Societatii de Sciinte din Bucuresci-1922" ("The Bulletin of the Science Society of Bucharest -1922") Not to mention this particular exibit, a manhole cover from the same era:  So now all depends on when the canteen was manufactured. Could it have been made before 1922? (the photograph comes from http://bucuresti-berlin.blogspot.com/2006/02/bucuresci-canalisare.html) |
| Posted by: Wings_of_wrath May 29, 2006 05:25 am |
| Ok, I've found it: the spelling was officially changed from "Bucuresci" to "Bucuresti" following the Romanian Academy's change of ortographic rules for the Romanian language in 1932, the same disputed modification that introduced “î din i”. Proof is this "Romanian Grand Cross 1932 Civil Merit award" on http://axis101.bizland.com/RomanianAwards01.htm site (I'm sure those of you with an interest in decorations are familiar with it) that is marked on the reverse side with the dealer's name and adress "Josef Resch & FIU Bucuresci"  So now it's beggining to look more and more like that canteen might be a genuine artifact. However, in order to be sure, Maxikasek, can you please post the exact dimensions and a phototgraph of the text? |
| Posted by: mihnea May 29, 2006 11:24 am |
| Thanks for the info Wings_of_wrath; I didn't know that Bucharest was ever spelled "Bucuresci". So the first canteen is probably Romanian but I wander what was written on it. Is the year of manufacture on it? Maxikasek, were did you find it? |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR May 29, 2006 03:17 pm |
| http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plate17cc.jpg Cup saucer plate. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR May 29, 2006 03:19 pm |
| http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plate1insignia7qr.jpg Cup saucer plate insignia. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR May 29, 2006 03:22 pm |
| http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teapot6jp.jpg Teapot. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR May 29, 2006 03:23 pm |
| http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teapotinsignia5cc.jpg Teapot insignia. |
| Posted by: Carol I May 29, 2006 06:44 pm | ||
This is in fact a type I Grand Cross star of the Order of the Crown of Romania. It has been in use from 1881 until 1932 when the insignia of the order were changed. |
| Posted by: maxikasek May 29, 2006 11:00 pm |
| unfortunatelly for a better photos you must wait to half june. Actually i to stay out home. this is found in the battlefields in Poland. this canteen is rather made in IWW. |
| Posted by: Wings_of_wrath May 30, 2006 02:30 am | ||||
Well, you're bound to know a lot more about decorations than I do, since I do not have the slightest interest in this subject, so I just took for granted whatever was written on the site where I found the picture ... Carol, what do you think, can this decoration be from 1932? Thank you for clearing out the confusion. |
| Posted by: Carol I May 30, 2006 03:28 pm | ||
As far as I know the Romanian jewellers did not use regularly year markings on their pieces, so a precise dating is not possible. At most one could do some sort of period dating by the shape of the hallmarks on the piece, but the results extend over ten or more years. More precise results could be obtained when one knows the history of a piece, but I am afraid this is out of question for the star you have posted since the author did not even have the name of the order right. |
| Posted by: maxikasek June 24, 2006 02:11 pm | ||
mihnea - this is better photos aluminium canteen: http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10014460hp.jpg http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10014455ma.jpg and second canteen- sign ??????????? RUD. H. OPPLER BUCURESC? http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10014495ap.jpg |
| Posted by: Wings_of_wrath June 29, 2006 05:15 pm |
| In my oppinion, the second canteen is romanian WW1. I have a simmilar one, only green and without any markings. The shape and material (emaneled steel) fit the period, and so does the inscription. The only thing that bothers me is the colour, since I haven't seen a black romanian canteen of this type before. So maybe it's not ww1 but made in the 1920's... Anyway, I'm no expert, so maybe we should ask some people who know this stuff better - Kepi, Mihnea, what do you reckon? |
| Posted by: mihnea June 29, 2006 06:22 pm |
| For the aluminum one I "prepared" you a picture. The big canteen is Yugoslavian the smaller one Romanian. http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=053df.jpg There was an enameled one theoretically used in WWII, this is the only picture of it (that I have seen), it also presents some of the kitchen equipment issued at the beginning of the war. http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bidoanesigamele5sx.jpg |
| Posted by: Claudiu1988 July 09, 2006 05:33 pm |
| This german plate was worn by a romanian soldger on the russian front. http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Claudiu1988 July 09, 2006 05:36 pm |
| http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Claudiu1988 July 09, 2006 05:37 pm |
| http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: mihnea July 09, 2006 05:43 pm |
| Nice plate, probably used by an officer. But how do you know it was used by a Romanian soldier in WWII? |
| Posted by: Claudiu1988 July 09, 2006 05:50 pm |
| The plate comes from Codlea it was worn by a romanian soldger who fought with germans all the way to Crimeea. That is what the owner said. |
| Posted by: maxikasek July 12, 2006 05:01 pm |
| this Yugo is past-war? |
| Posted by: mihnea July 22, 2006 07:00 am |
| No the Yugo canteen is from WWII. |
| Posted by: ANDI February 18, 2007 08:00 pm |
| Roumanian (german type) mess kit. My guess is that we had produced this model after the war. It is unmarked. http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0684bq5.jpg http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0685wd8.jpg |
| Posted by: ANDI February 18, 2007 08:03 pm |
| Romanian ww2 mess kit. Complete and in very good condition, enamel intact. http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0669br9.jpg http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0670yd6.jpg |
| Posted by: mihnea February 18, 2007 10:14 pm | ||||||||
I have reconsidered my opinion regarding the aluminum canteen, after I bought another one covert with felt and seeing one in a picture, used by a Romanian soldier. It’s very probable that the one presented as Yugoslav in this book: "Field Equipment of the infantry 1914-1945" by Robert Fisch is Romanian. Now the pictures: http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010020kn7.jpg http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010022ui2.jpg http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010021al2.jpg http://img479.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010023db9.jpg |
| Posted by: mihnea February 19, 2007 02:27 pm |
| The pages from the book "Field Equipment of the infantry 1914-1945" by Robert Fisch presenting a Romanian canteen without the felt (in my opinion) as Yugoslav. http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0023anq1.jpg http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0024adv8.jpg And the picture from Militaria Magasin Hors-Serie Nr 51 "Guerre en Crimee Prendre Sebastopol !" by Yves Buffetaut: http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0025ama2.jpg The right gunner has a big canteen attached to the gas mask bag. |
| Posted by: maxikasek March 03, 2007 09:22 pm |
| Hello. I have two models Yugo canteen. Belgrad 1940 http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=90410148rt0.jpg and Balkanmetal Kopryvnica 1940 http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=manierka1940prodbakanmenz4.jpg |
| Posted by: ANDI March 04, 2007 08:19 pm |
| Romanian water canteen with, what appears to be, russian cover. The cover is made out of two layers, cloth on the outside, felt on the inside. The attaching system is actually a cloth belt with buckle. http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0708ja9.jpg http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0709gy0.jpg |
| Posted by: Messerschmitt March 05, 2007 06:15 am | ||
I think that one of my neighbours has three "nr.72" canteens. |
| Posted by: mihnea March 05, 2007 04:44 pm | ||
The cover doesn’t like the Russian ones on the net ( http://www.aboutww2militaria.com/index.html?rus_field_gear_3.htm ). The material used inside as padding looks like Romanian WWII cloth used for uniforms; also the way the cap is attached to the cover doesn’t seem to be field made. Therefore I think that it's a Romanian canteen and cover made especially for cold climates like the Russian winters. |
| Posted by: ANDI March 05, 2007 09:16 pm |
| I reckon you are right. As far as I have seen on the site you have mentioned above, those russian canteen covers are bag-like, with an X strap around the neck of the canteen. Also the material seems to be ordinary thin cloth. |
| Posted by: mihnea March 30, 2007 05:51 pm |
| My latest acquisition: a aluminum mess tin used in WWII by the romanian army probably made in Italy as it's very similar to the ones used by the Italian army in WWII. http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010007us7.jpg http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010009bl3.jpg http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010008ub8.jpg |
| Posted by: maxikasek May 30, 2007 06:29 pm |
| My latest acquisition: romanian canteen - one of them. http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1003146gm9.jpg |
| Posted by: maxikasek May 30, 2007 06:32 pm |
| and my collections http://www.ioh.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5815 |
| Posted by: mihnea August 02, 2007 07:50 pm |
| I think that now I have almost all the major types of canteens and mess kits used by the Romanian army in WWII (not counting the German, Russian, Hungarian and the WWI items), I mean all the standard equipment used at the beginning of the war. http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010009zo8.jpg Canteens, from left to right: enameled similar to the Austrian WWI ones, aluminium with four ribs on the exterior this one has a German cork but it fits perfectly and it's from the period so I'm not going to change it (beneath it is the cover but because the cover stayed for many year on a German canteen it doesn’t fit any more but you can see one in mint condition here: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2884&st=0 ); the other two are identical except that one is bigger. Mess kits, again from left to right: the most common Romanian canteen made from enameled steel, the handle is blued; identical to the previous one but this one is 1cm smaller than the first one; this is most probably the plate for these canteens it fits both but if it is used with the smaller one there combined height is very close to the big one; Italian canteen made from aluminum, I have seen it used only by the paratroopers. I always wanted to reconstruct this picture: http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bidoanesigamele5sx.jpg  http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010006pj5.jpg |
| Posted by: Claudiu1988 August 02, 2007 08:22 pm |
Congratulation  I like them a lot. |
| Posted by: maxikasek September 01, 2007 10:56 pm |
| Bigger canteen and messkit made for highlander troops. |
| Posted by: ANDI December 01, 2007 04:09 pm |
I need more info about this canteen....  http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1393xl9.jpg http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1394xg7.jpg |
| Posted by: ANDI December 01, 2007 04:11 pm |
| ...some more pics... http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1395xw8.jpg http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1396tm8.jpg |
| Posted by: Mannlicher December 03, 2007 07:01 pm |
Any marker marks/numbers on it?  |
| Posted by: mihnea December 03, 2007 07:31 pm |
| In my opinion it's an early post war design but I'm not sure. Your canteen is missing it's cover and straps. Oh and I have never seen it in any WWII photos. It's used by most of the extras in "Noi cei din linia intai" and by some of the actors. If you want to see one complete I can pin point the location but only on PM or phone. |
| Posted by: ANDI December 03, 2007 08:09 pm |
| It has no markings whatsoever. The body and the cup is enameled inside and outside and is also missing the chain who linked the cork from the body. I find it too expensive to be made for a movie scenography but who knows...  |
| Posted by: mihnea December 03, 2007 10:22 pm |
| Oh but I didn't said it's a prop I only said it was used in that movie as trivia. They are as authentic as possible, just that they were available in big quantities for that movie, unlike know WWII canteens that are more rare. |
| Posted by: ANDI December 04, 2007 06:52 am | ||
Well, that is very interesting indeed. Thanks for the information. |
| Posted by: taiwi February 11, 2012 08:57 pm |
| Hi guys, thanks a lot for topic. Do you have any for sale? I think, we will neet 5pcs approx. Thanks a lot for your offer (if any :-). Have a good time. |