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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > Modelling & Art > He-111 upper surfaces camouflage pattern |
| Posted by: kokta March 29, 2006 06:33 am |
| Hello, there is my friend´s photo of the He-111 1/48 in progress. He would like to make it in an interesting and nice Romanian camouflage - see bellow, but he need help with upper surfaces camouflage pattern. Please, can anyone help him ?? Yours sincerely, David Koktavý, Czech Republic   |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino March 29, 2006 07:03 am |
| The colors on color profile are wrong. It should be RLM 61,62,63. On left side romanian He-111 H3 had the emblem of 5thBG, an flying bomb. For more details check this link. You can ask questions in english, you will get answers. http://cartula.net/modules/ipboard/index.php?showtopic=1018&st=0 |
| Posted by: Dénes March 29, 2006 12:55 pm |
| This particular colour profile is 'floating' around for decades in the aviation literature. It has been copied over and over again. As Cantacuzino just said, the colours are wrong. Gen. Dénes P.S. It would be nice for the modellers to present the available information and their advices on the kit of He 111 H-3, No. 20, here, too, to the benefit of the English language readers and our little community... |
| Posted by: 109 March 30, 2006 02:53 pm |
| Perhaps this will help, if only just a little. So big "complicate" crosses on the uppersurfaces, weird simetrically painted wing tips.  The picture appeared in the first (1941) issue of the book "Noi dela bombardament" by G.O. Ioan (who flew "white 20") . Apparently this picture was taken during 1941, before "white 20" recieved it's many many tricolor missions bars. The author mentions that his plane sported eight oblique tricolor bars on the left side of the fuselage, for the eight air kills that the crew was credited with. |
| Posted by: Dénes March 30, 2006 06:19 pm | ||
I doubt all those 'kills' were ever confirmed. Can you tell us the complete crew? Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Victor March 30, 2006 06:43 pm |
| 23 June 1941 - 1 fighter at Bolgrad crew: lt. av. M. Nicolau, lt. M. Padureanu, slt. Grigore Ioan, smstr. Nicolae Serea, serg. Florin Mehedintu, serg. V. Lupulescu That's the only victory confirmed to a crew in which Grigore Olimp Ioan was part of. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino March 30, 2006 06:46 pm | ||
Probably the tricolor bars were missions not victories. Some rom. He -111H3 had painted enemy fighters (kills) together with this bars. Like this one. ( source Aripi Romanesti) http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino March 30, 2006 06:57 pm | ||
In many pictures with rom He 111 H3 looks like only the left side was painted with bars. |
| Posted by: 109 March 30, 2006 07:22 pm |
 This is a fragment from G.O. Ioan' war album : apparently he knows exactly what he is saying, even though 8 confirmed victories seems pretty much for even a fighter pilot by the end of 1941... a translation woud be something like : "Our crew had 8 confirmed air victories fighting the enemy fighters.Proof are the 8 tricolor bars on the fuselage." |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino March 30, 2006 07:24 pm | ||
The Michael cross on the wings of nr 20. Source Romanian Aeronautics-Edit Modelism http://imageshack.us http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Fratello March 30, 2006 07:28 pm |
| Yes it's true The air victories are confirmed by Ioan Grigore Olimp himself in a recent interview. Below a recently photo with Ioan Grigore Olimp http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: 109 March 30, 2006 07:30 pm |
| Apparently the wingtips of all H3's are in fact yellow: (sorry if i offend anyone for i can't remember the source, most probably internet)  |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino March 30, 2006 07:41 pm | ||
Could be the engine upper cowlings yellow too? |
| Posted by: Victor March 30, 2006 07:45 pm | ||
With all due respect for him, the air victories were confirmed by GAL or the two air commands of the 3rd and 4th Armies. Only one claim was confirmed. |
| Posted by: Dénes March 31, 2006 12:06 am | ||
I can confirm what Victor just said (confirmed by OZ Nr.15/26.08.1941-GAL). Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Dénes March 31, 2006 12:07 am | ||
This photo was published (also) in my book on ARR, by Squadron/Signal (p.53). Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Ruy Aballe March 31, 2006 02:13 pm |
| I noticed that the ailerons of He 111 H-3 "20" seem to have been painted in a strinkingly light colour. This is apparent in the photo posted by 109, but also in the post by Cantacuzino (image from Romanian Aeronautics-Editura Modelism) and in the photo published in Dénes' book; in the last one, the colour almost matches the white trim of the elaborate Michael wing crosses. Any ideas?? Ruy |
| Posted by: kokta April 06, 2006 02:02 pm |
| Hello everybody, 1) Thanks for your answers and contributions to a discussion. 2) I saw the other forum about the romanian He-111 but I can not insert the questions. I registered already 2 days ago and permanently I have displayed „The selected user has been deactivated or has not been activated yet“. So I take the liberty of adding the question there : Unfortunately I don´t understand romanian languange but I think, in the other forum the last scheme posted by 1-0-9 is correct, isn´t it ??? 3) I will post some informations about the He-111 kit after talking to my friend who is building this kit. 4) In summary, there is a few observations for now : The romanian He-111 had the emblem of 5thBG on the left side. Upper surfaces were painted in RLM 61,62,63 with yellow wing tips. The He-111 upper wing surfaces had the big „complicate“ crosses. The cowlings are probably in RLM 61 ( based on some photos). Some of the He-111´s ailerons were painted in an unknown light color. David |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino April 06, 2006 02:43 pm | ||
Yes, it's more appropiate last scheme of upper cammo (RLM 61, 62, 63). but the light color ailerons ( grey ?) , yellow wingtip and big crosses on wings you can use it only for He -111 H3 no. 20 (it could be some diference for other He 111 numbers). I didn't see pictures with left side of this He 111 no 20 but I believe has painted the missions bars on left side fuselage. |
| Posted by: mgc151184 April 06, 2006 03:39 pm |
| In my opinion the upper surfaces cammo scheme of Rumanian He-111 H3 is: http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Dénes April 06, 2006 05:12 pm |
| Also - as said above - the wingtips and ailerons (perhaps the engine cowlings, too) were painted in different colours. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino April 06, 2006 05:22 pm |
I attached two pictures . One german and one romanian HE 111 both with same cammo ( so it's not a romanian cammo  )german He 111 (source czech He111 book) http://imageshack.us romanian He 111 (source DM coll.) http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino April 06, 2006 05:34 pm | ||
This is an apropriate upper cammo color draw for He 111 no 20 (RLM 61, 62, 63.) http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino April 06, 2006 05:41 pm |
| Another picture with a romanian He 111 H3 (no 14). Source SMP. The 5thBG emblem ("flying bomb") visible on left side fuselage. http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: mgc151184 April 06, 2006 05:54 pm |
| I forget to tell that the colors used by the Rumanian He111 H3 (in my opinion)are RLM 61,62,63. I put the photo for the camouflage scheme not for RLM referent (see the left wing) |
| Posted by: mgc151184 April 06, 2006 06:03 pm |
 |
| Posted by: mgc151184 April 06, 2006 06:22 pm |
 Photo from Denes book. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino April 06, 2006 06:56 pm | ||
Ok, now I understand you wanted to represent only the color delimitation upper surfaces. http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Dénes April 06, 2006 07:32 pm | ||
Why was the coloured drawing switched with a black/white one? This way, my comments are pointless. As for the camouflage colours, I already identified them as RLM 61/62/63/65 in my Squadron/Signal book on ARR, published in 1999 (rear cover). Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino April 07, 2006 03:38 am | ||||
Because MGC made a mistake with the color drawing. He wanted a RLM 61,62,63 (dark brown, medium green and grey colors) cammo but instead he posted a close to RLM 71,72,02 (dark green ,medium green, and grey) cammo color drawing. Quote MGC:
All of us were foolish by this mistake.  So no pointless to debate the RLM colors. We all (MGC, Denes, Cantacuzino ...) agree that romanian He 111 H3 had RLM 61,62,63 upper cammo.  |
| Posted by: mgc151184 April 07, 2006 09:47 am | ||
 |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino April 07, 2006 10:36 am |
| That's better |
| Posted by: kokta April 26, 2006 07:27 am |
| Hello, I was talking to my friend. Finally he decided to build He-111 No. 4, because he had not the dekals with big crosses. It would be a mistake building No. 20. He told me: I thank to all for help about He-111. It was a hard work with Revell´s He-111. I will write an article into czech modeler magazine about building He-111. Then I will post here some comments in english translation. Well, at this time the model is finished already. There are some photos from international modeler competition in Mosonmagyarvar: http://www.dolin.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/MODELY---Me-I-Z-AKCl/moson-2006/original/1400 http://www.kpmbratislava.sk/main/sutaze/moson06/1/images/052_jpg.jpg |
| Posted by: mgc151184 July 06, 2006 08:35 pm |
Here is my He 111 H3 1/72 from Hasegawa with Romanian markings.    |
| Posted by: lancer21 September 12, 2010 01:39 pm |
| Maby not exactly the subject of this topic, but its a question about the He-111 nonetheless, can i ask please when exactly did the He-111H-3 started to arrive in Romania , i know it's 1940 , but which part of the year , or month, and over how long their delivery was spread? Thank you very much. PS: My apologies, i just realized my query is posted the Modelling and Art section and cant delete it now, should have at least tried to find a topic in the ARR section for it ( used the search engine and went for the first He-111 topic from the top!)... |