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WorldWar2.ro Forum > Reenactment > Forming Reenactment-group "Kommandostab 8.Armee"

Posted by: Elvetian April 05, 2013 02:16 pm

Hi Together,

i decided to try to form a new Reenactment-group here in Romania.
It will be completely different then most other Reenactment-groups.
The motiv for this is simple: i'm more interested in Strategies and Tactics then in combat, weapon- or marching-drill. Had that enough in my active military duty.

I believe many people here in the forum are interested in history, this sayd it's clear that not single units and combat-actions changed history.
More or less war-Strategies, -Tactics, -Organisation and -Logistics had a direct impact on the history.

Therefore it would be cool to form a Reenactment-group of german forces deployed in Transylvania+Hungary in 1944-1945 which reflects all the subjects described above.
That can't be done when just one single unit is reenacted.

How can a Reenactment-group show this subjects ?
Simple, to reenact a whole Army-HQ.
This gives the possibility to display how is the work in a HQ, communication etc.
Another interesting thing is that members wont be limited to just one unit.
A wide range of Army-branches, unit-types and uniforms is possible.

Sure there wont be combat-action with all it's noise and bäng.....
No weapon-drill or marching-drill......
But action in form of other things.

On the other hand the members will have to gain a lot of knowledgment about the history itself but also about how a army is organised and leaded.
Army combat-structures, how units work together, communication structure.
Why a operation was successfull and why others not.

Hope i could interest many people.

Those who became interested can find more information in PDF-Format, like:

Description/Guidelines of the planned Reenactment-group "Kommandostab 8.Armee"
with Timeline, Field of Operation etc...
Membership-Formulary (save formulary and open with Acrobat-reader. Then just click into the fields to fill out the formulary)
Composition of 8.Armee with all Branches, Divisions and Units

Much more detailed information of any Division, Strategical/Tactical-material, Kriegsstärken-Nachweis of units, Uniform-Tables and Rank-Tables will be downloadable to members in form of PDF-Files after commited participaion.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to contact me by mail,
as i do understand and speek also the romanian language it's no problem to write in romanian:
8armee@cybergate-corp.ch

PDF-File: http://www.cybergate-corp.ch/8armee/A_Description%20Reenactment-Group%20Kommandostab%208.Armee_Rev4.pdf
Sample Image of Page 1:
user posted image

PDF-File: http://www.cybergate-corp.ch/8armee/Member_Inscription_Reenactment-Group_Kommandostab_8Armee_Rev2.pdf
user posted image

PDF-File: http://www.cybergate-corp.ch/8armee/8_Armee_Gliederung%201944_1945.pdf
Sample image of Page 1 and 2:
user posted image

Greetings
Robi

Just for those who don't go further into the listed documents above:
I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT I'M AGAINST ANY TOTALITARY REGIME AND ANY DONE WARCRIMES.
MY INTEREST IS NOT IDEOLOGICAL NATURE, BUT INTEREST IN HISTORY.
I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY FORM OF DISCRIMINATION OR RASISM IN SPOKEN/WRITEN/DONE FORM.

Posted by: Elvetian April 19, 2013 07:57 pm

More then 100 viewings and no reply !

Still nobody interested to start a new Reenactment-Group here in Romania ?

Or is there something completely wrong with my idea ?
I know it's different then most other ideas of reenacting.

Dont hesitate, just tell me.

Greetings
Robert

Posted by: Florin April 21, 2013 10:04 pm

QUOTE (Elvetian @ April 19, 2013 02:57 pm)

Maybe because in your reenactment plans, you either had selected the wrong side to be reenacted, either the wrong website.

Maybe . . .

Posted by: Elvetian April 22, 2013 09:10 am

QUOTE (Florin @ April 22, 2013 02:04 am)

Maybe because in your reenactment plans, you either had selected the wrong side to be reenacted, either the wrong website.

Maybe . . .

Florin,

thanks a lot for your feedback.
Sure some of your points are the case here.

As there already exist Romanian-Reenactment groups it wouldn't really make sense to start a new one.

About the site i thought it's probably good to post it here cause it is a Romanian-website which is frequented by romanian people.
And of course also in lack of other Romanian websites with similar subject/interest.
Or at least i dont know those websites.

Greetings
Robert

Posted by: ionionescu April 22, 2013 10:50 am

QUOTE (Elvetian @ April 22, 2013 10:10 am)

And of course also in lack of other Romanian websites with similar subject/interest.
Or at least i dont know those websites.

Greetings
Robert

There are 4 main Romanian reeancment groups, at this moment, focusing mainly, but not exclusively, on WW1 and WW2, with 20 to 25 members and supporters each, totalling about 100 reenactors. Here are their websites (order is chosen randomly):

Asociația 6 Dorobanți: http://www.6dorobanti.ro/
Asociația Tradiția Militară: http://www.traditia-militara.ro/
Asociația Datina Străbună: http://datinastrabuna.ro/
Asociatia Deutsches Freikorps: http://deutschesfreikorps.ro/

As far as I know, all of them are based in Bucharest, except Asociația Datina Străbună which is based in Oradea or Cluj, don't know for sure. All the sites above have forums where you can discuss in Romanian or English language. Regards!

Posted by: Elvetian May 08, 2013 01:20 pm

Thanks at all for the informations regarding why it's not as easy as i thought to create such a group.

Still i'm determent to realise here in Romania a Reenactmentgroup who will represent a german headquarter.

TO LOWER THE BARRIER AND REDUCING THE INITIAL COST, i will do the following for the 1st 3 members:
- to buy the below listed uniform-parts.
- means i aquire those uniform-parts, the members choose what, and they can be used as a loan.
- there will be signed a loan-contract, the uniform will remain during this period by the member.
- if within 6 months no activity in the group is implied by the member, the loan gets closed and the parts have to given back (of course without any additional cost or fee).
- after 18 months the parts should be bough by the member in a onetime payment or can be purchased in rates. No obligation to purchase, again no additional fees.

Fieldblouse
Visor Cap with all insignia
Uniform eagle
Shoulder Boards
Collar Tabs

This means, for the 3 first members the initial cost will be approximatelly 145 Euro for this parts:

Trousers/Breeches
Jackboots
WH-Belt

If officer-riding-boots get purchased localy here in Romania the cost can even get reduced to 550 romanian lei.

UNIFORM-COST:
user posted image

Hope now with this the barrier of cash and risk is low enough to attract somebody.
Choosen will be according the incoming time of the "member-inscription" formulary.

While looking lately a lot on different Reenactment and WH-forums, i stumbled over a pretty interesting Reenactmentgroup.
So sayd, i was not the first who had such a idea.
In UK exist allready a reenactmentgroup who achieved exactly what i was planning to do here in Romania.

But check yourself, specially the foto-section gives a insight view:
http://www.generalstab.co.uk/pages/about.html

Greetings
Robi

Posted by: Florin May 11, 2013 02:24 am

"Elvetian", that's a very nice gesture on your behalf.
I just hope that you do not think that if a Romanian is not willing to do something, it is just because of money.
Unfortunately the Germans emigrated from Romania in the previous decades. If that would not happen, now you could easily form your reenactment group in Romania.

Posted by: Ferdinand May 11, 2013 02:47 pm

QUOTE (Elvetian @ May 08, 2013 01:20 pm)

I can offer my oppinion on this matter since i wanted to start a similar group some years ago. My ideea was that our group would represent:

German paratroopers for Bukarest area fights.
Wehrmacht, LW, Prinz Eugen and Floryan Geyer div, since many units were present in Romania in ww2.

Main problem, the neo-nazi fanatics.

this is me

http://minus.com/l3tlbSDO3Zjan

than...came this guy(guess who's fan is he

)

http://minus.com/l1fYoZCbzdxZG

The next day some 2 boys came to make a foto with me and i accepted. The picture was taken on the Panzer.One of them took a nazy flag out and i didn't noticed it . When i saw it it was too late, there were a lot of people taking pictures. That's only one reason ...

Posted by: Florin May 11, 2013 11:27 pm

QUOTE (seeker @ May 11, 2013 09:47 am)

.......
The next day some 2 boys came to make a foto with me and i accepted. The picture was taken on the Panzer.One of them took a nazy flag out and i didn't noticed it . When i saw it it was too late, there were a lot of people taking pictures. That's only one reason ...

You should have seen the Nazi flag installed on a pole at Fort Mifflin (Philadelphia, PA) in April 2004, by the reenactors for German 9th Waffen SS Hoenstaufen.

It was huge! I had rarely seen a flag so big, of any kind...

Posted by: Dénes May 12, 2013 06:30 am

QUOTE (Florin @ May 12, 2013 05:27 am)

You should have seen the Nazi flag...

What is a Nazi flag?

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: adicontakt May 12, 2013 12:51 pm

i think a flag with a zvastica

Posted by: Dénes May 12, 2013 01:18 pm

Wrong. Please show me what you think a Nazi flag is.

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: Florin May 12, 2013 03:37 pm

QUOTE (Dénes @ May 12, 2013 08:18 am)

Wrong. Please show me what you think a Nazi flag is.

Gen. Dénes

OK. So I should name it the flag of Germany (or of the German state) between 1933 and 1945.
Or I should name it the flag of The National-Socialist Germany, with no need to mention any years.
Is this better now ?

Like in those riddles: What is correct, "of " or "from" ?

Posted by: Ferdinand May 12, 2013 05:52 pm

QUOTE (Dénes @ May 12, 2013 01:18 pm)

Wrong. Please show me what you think a Nazi flag is.

Gen. Dénes

98% of this planet population belives that every red flag with a black swastika in a white circle is a nazy flag. I presume you will explain me that this flag here described by wikipedia as beinmg the flag of:

"Nazi Germany, also known as the Third Reich, is the common name for Germany during the period from 1933 to 1945, when its government was controlled by Adolf Hitler and his National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP; Nazi Party)"

Now i expect from you will tell us that it is the symbol of ancient tibethan god and symbolizes the Sun... or something like that.

Please tell us Denes, what flag do you see in the link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_German_Reich_%281935%E2%80%931945%29.svg

Posted by: Florin May 12, 2013 06:21 pm

"seeker", if "98% of this planet population..." believes something, that does not mean it has to be right. That's just a general point, not necessarily related to the flag.

Posted by: Dénes May 12, 2013 06:28 pm

QUOTE (seeker @ May 12, 2013 11:52 pm)

Please tell us Denes, what flag do you see in the link?

Again - I see I need repeat this over and over again - it's not what I see or believe, it's the historical fact.

The name of the file clearly gives the answer:
File:Flag of German Reich (1935–1945)

It's not the flag of the NSDAP (Nazi) Party, i.e. the Nazi flag.

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: Ferdinand May 12, 2013 06:51 pm

@ Florin - the topic here is about Nazy flag.

@ Denes....
1.lots of historical facts are based on what other saw and you beliving what they saw.
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_symbolism

But just for my couriosity, what do you consider to be a nazy flag?

Posted by: Elvetian May 13, 2013 02:16 pm

@ALL:

don't understand why there's a need to discuss what is a Nazi-flag ?
It's pretty clear:
Red-ground / white circle / black Swastika.

As mentioned by Seeker, it is not were the symbol Swastika came from ( i know it's a religious symbol) but what people see and imply with it.

And well, any reenactor who exposes such a flag, doesn't matter were it is, or salute with straight arm is simply ignorant (in my eyes his even a stupid). In most Reenacting-Groups (maybe except in USA) this would result in imidiat expulsion from the group.
Living history does not mean anything is allouwd what was common in that period of time, it means to show the history with as little as possible offence for other peoples feelings.

At least in the reenactment-group i plan to form such things never would happen without clear measurements.

Means:
No Nazi-flags or Wehrmacht-flags with big swastikas
No salut with straight arm

The thread went a bit in another direction.
But doesn't matter, at least a discussion started up.
And maybe trough that some people get the courage and convidence to participate.

Greetings
Robert

Posted by: Elvetian May 13, 2013 02:22 pm

QUOTE (seeker @ May 11, 2013 06:47 pm)

this is me

http://minus.com/l3tlbSDO3Zjan

Seeker,
pretty nice uniform you have there.
No interest to participate as a Luftwaffen Officer ?

Posted by: Elvetian May 13, 2013 02:32 pm

QUOTE (Florin @ May 11, 2013 06:24 am)

Hello Florin,

As i live now since 2005 in Romania i know that it probably isn't only the money.
But i do see that 400 to 500 Euro is still a lot of money for many people.
Including me.

I can't change peoples mind, but i can encourage maybe some to participate.
And for those who would like but maybe don't want to spend in the beginning so much i can offer to reduce their initial cost.

Sure many people have fear that visitors will condamn them as fanatics.
But it matters very VERY much how a Reenactor interacts with the public and how he communicates.

Greetings
Robert

Posted by: Florin May 14, 2013 04:31 pm

QUOTE (Dénes @ May 12, 2013 01:28 pm)

QUOTE (seeker @ May 12, 2013 11:52 pm)

Please tell us Denes, what flag do you see in the link?

That's interesting. When I'll be back home, I'll make a search about the latter subject.