Romanian Army in Budapest 1919

[aerialls]

QUOTE

It seems to me that it's a typical propaganda photo. Have you seen photos of Soviet troops distributing food to German civilians in 1945?

yes, and only the "soft skin" vehicles of the Arr wear concade on the eastern front...

pls. pls.. tell me what you have read? It makes me so courios!
I asked once and nowone replied.

yes, ive seen soviet troops distribuiting food to german civilians..and i also seen a short movie on it. It was on an soviet soldier who somehow "adopted" an german girl.. feeding here everytime from his can.

And based on what sick mental criteria you classifie distribuiting food to the population as propaganda !?!

[Dénes]

Mr. Aerialls, before you post in anger, please take your time to read carefully the message you're replying to.
Let me quote myself:

QUOTE

It seems to me that it's a typical propaganda photo.

In other words, I was referring to the photo as propaganda, not the action itself, which certainly happened.

As for details on the Rumanian Army's 1918-1919 Hungarian Campaign, I can list details only tomorrow, as currently I am at work and cannot access this site from my home computer.

[aerialls]

QUOTE

It seems to me that it's a typical propaganda photo.

again, what's wrong with this picture?
it's a picture of an action that has occured.

you can see there a kid looking into the can... another one looking at the photographer and taking cover with his hand from the sun...

Or you are maybe thinking that they were payd at comming to taste some "mamaliga"? :roll:

I'm looking into your post tomorow.. and everybody i think in this forum whould aprecciate the references on that.

[Chandernagore]

If this is a propaganda picture, it is either very well done (too well) or it only accidentally suited propaganda services because it looks so natural to me. There is one thing that I find strange however. The officer on the left appears to be high ranked, I would not expect him in such a scene.

[dragos]

If a humanitarian action was initiated, I don't find it is unusual that high ranking officers were attending, especially if reporters were expected.

[aerialls]

ok.. maybe i am the "stupid" here: could we classifie an humanitarian action when reporters are expected as propaganda?
Or maybe the reporter was not so much expected afterall...
watheva...

[Victor]

aerialls there is no need for hostility.
As for the humanitarian actions of the Romanian occupational forces in Budapest, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. There was no intention to starve the inhabitants of Budapest, but the Romanian army wasn't a UN peace keeping force and abuses occured.

[Dénes]

QUOTE

pls. pls.. tell me what you have read? It makes me so courios! I asked once and nowone replied.

As per your request, here are some data of the effect of Rumanian occupation of Hungary in 1919:

1.292 locomotive engines, 2.006 passenger and 32.154 freight railway cars moved to Rumania, as well as the complete equipment, machinery, product and material depots of several factories, including the entire gun factory of Györ, in a total over 8.000 machine tools and other materials, loaded onto 37.756 railway cars.

Approximately 627 airplanes (many disassembled or damaged), several Zeppelins and hundreds of aero engines were captured and moved out of Hungary, along with an assortment of aviation building materials.

The total damage caused by the Rumanian occupation on the post-Trianon territory of Hungary was estimated at 29.650 billion Hungarian korona (at Aug. 15, 1919 value).

[Alexandru H.]

Sounds like Romanian behaviour

[Victor]

QUOTE

As per your request, here are some data of the effect of Rumanian occupation of Hungary in 1919: 1.292 locomotive engines, 2.006 passenger and 32.154 freight railway cars moved to Rumania, as well as the complete equipment, machinery, product and material depots of several factories, including the entire gun factory of Györ, in a total over 8.000 machine tools and other materials, loaded onto 37.756 railway cars.   Approximately 627 airplanes (many disassembled or damaged), several Zeppelins and hundreds of aero engines were captured and moved out of Hungary, along with an assortment of aviation building materials. The total damage caused by the Rumanian occupation on the post-Trianon territory of Hungary was estimated at 29.650 billion Hungarian korona (at Aug. 15, 1919 value).

Well, you could have at least mentioned that part of this equipment did not actually belong to Hungary. Some of it was of Romanian origin, being taken as war booty by Austro-Hungarian and German armies, or it was left there by retreating German forces. The Romanian army also requisitioned goods that belonged to non-Hungarian citizens (neutrals).

Also you did not expect Romania to leave to Hugary factories which it could use to build up its army.

[Dénes]

I don't think that during those turbulent times the Hungarians had a chance to document the material randomly left behind by retreating German forces. And the figures I mentioned above refer to items that were documented.
I would say the ex-German matériel captured by Rumanians is on the top of the statistics given.

As for ex-Rumanian goods being recovered, although it could certainly happened, the percentage of such items in all materials removed from Hungary by the Rumanian Army is negligable.

[Alexandru H.]

Denes, look at this problem from this angle: the equipment was useless. I, for one, can't feel the difference created by its confiscation. Cursed guns ...

[Dan Po]

In a few days after they conquer of the teritory were the annumition factory from Dudesti was placed, in 1916, the germans remove all this factory with all machines to Germany. This was a loot?

We just have to study the documents about the rulled imposed by germans in ocuppied part of Romani in 1916 - 1918 to see how many toons of warm clothes they took from the population how did they took the cows and oxes and another animals from the peasants in the winter time ... but there weren t any allied officer to wrote down this facts in a diary ...

We have to understand that was war or post war times when the economy was down, a big miserry and everybody was lookingfor compensations and new sources of food or wealth ...

A loot is not a reason to be proud. But any army, in a war time can be charged with this guilt.

[mateias]

Could anybody provide gen. Bandholz's biography? When did he retire from active service ? Did he die before his memoirs book was published in 1933 ? If so, who did it on his behalf ? Wife, children, lover ?
Thank you.

[Dénes]

I found the following on the 'net: General Harry H. Bandholtz (1864-1925).

I also stumbled across the complete version of his memoirs:
http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/bandh/bandh.pdf

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 05, 2007 09:09 pm