Romanian & Hungarian war-crimes

Congratulations, Denes. It's quite clear that for you those unfortunate Jews from Sarmas are not human beings. I lived to see this in the 21st century. I wonder what says the forum administrator on your ideas. That "mockery" image is from the American Library of Congress. You do not deserve any more reply, at least not on this topic.

This post has been edited by mateias on December 11, 2007 09:26 pm

Mateias, don't distort the facts and attempt to label me with anything!

When I said 'mockery', of course I was not referring to the photos you posted, but clearly to your peculiar sentence, explicitely stated on the top of my earlier post, namely:
QUOTE (mateias @ December 11, 2007 04:10 am)
Do you think the culprits were from another planet?

I think this is clear to anyone, but you...

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 11, 2007 10:14 pm

mateias,

This is a sensitive topic and there is no need to inflamate it by posting in an aggressive manner. We are all adults and I think we can act accordingly. This is not Romania Mare and pamphlets are not encouraged.

A post was moved to this topic, because it obviously belonged there.

For Victor,
You are right. The Romanian army killed Jews at Sarmash in October 1944. This is the final proof: the link to the Hungarian site quoted quite often by Denes and his other friends.



http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/genoci/genoci04.htm

PRESS REPORTS
The Sarmas Massacre

Transylvanian World Federation
Geneva, Switzerland

TWF, Geneva, Switzerland ¬ A refugee from Sarmas, Transylvania, residing now in Switzerland, whose name cannot be made public for well¬known reasons, testified in front of a Geneva judge concerning the "Sarmas Massacre of October 1944. Here is part of his testimony:
"I was fourteen years of age when my entire family was killed. We lived in a town named Sarmas, in Transylvania, My father was a tinsmith. We were Hungarians. Sarmas was a Hungarian town..."
"THE RUMANIANS CAME BACK ON A SUNDAY. It was in mid¬October. I don't know the date, but it was Sunday. My mother wanted us to go to church, but father said no, we better stay home. There may be some trouble, he said. We heard shots from the direction of Bald. Many shots. We saw some German trucks coming down the highway, rushing through the town and disappearing Northbound. I remember my father saying that the war was over..."
"THEN WE SAW THE RUMANIAN SOLDIERS COMING AT US FROM EVERYWHERE. Along the highway, across the meadows, across the cornfields, and even from the hilltop they came, across the pastures. They were firing shots everywhere. I couldn't see any enemy in front of them, but they were still firing..."
"They chased the Hungarians out of their houses, and herded them down toward the market¬place, like sheep. We hid in the house, and locked the door, but they broke it down. Mother begged them to leave us alone but they kicked her in the belly. My father got mad and reached for the axe. One of the soldiers shot him, and he fell. Then we were chased out of the house, my mother, my grandmother and my five brothers and sisters. My youngest sister was only three, and she was holding onto mother's skirt, screaming. Mother was screaming too, and everybody else..."
"I fell into a ditch. The ditch was full of weeds and nobody could see me. I was just lying there in the weeds, I was trembling..."
"Then I heard the shots, down at the marketplace. Many shots. Screams and more shots. And then everything was quiet. I have never seen my family again. The soldiers ordered the rest of the Hungarians to dig a hugh hole in the Szasz cornfield and bury all the dead. THERE WERE 134 BURIED THERE, THAT DAY..."


In fact, this is a thread opened and discussed a lot by many others and I am not interested at all in it. However, it's good for everbody to understand how propaganda works, even now. Bye, this thread.

About Sarmas:

1. The articles found on this link http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/genoci/genoci04.htm are only hungarian propaganda made in the old fashion as they used to made it: hungarians are only victims of their neighbours, especially romanians; a great nation (hungarian) is the inocent victim of Trianon diktat; romanian killed hungarians everywhere; romanians killed hebrews everywhere; the gifted and peacefull nation of Hungary is killed even nowadays by romanians; they are killed culturally, by language and so on.

2. "in the Jewish cemetery in Sarmas, where the victims of a 1944 mass murder of Jews by Hungarian fascists are buried." source: Tel Aviv University, Stephen Roth Institute.
I visited that cemetery 4 years ago and on the great stone it is written the same: Hungarians killed that poor hebrew civilians.

I haven't read the entire body of work, so I cannot state my opinion yet, but the articles are certainly quite suspicious.

One particular article is entitled "The White Book. Atrocities against Hungarians in the Autumn of 1944, in Transylvania, Romania".

In the article, the author refers to General Macici as "the blood-stained leader of the massacres in Bessarabia"

http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/feher/feher.pdf

Dear all,

I'm sorry to disappoint you but all the crimes committed by Hungarian nationals with or without the approvals of their authorities between 1940-1944 are not war crimes as till 1944 the status between Romania and Hungary was PEACE, so they can be consider as crimes against humanity, or genocide.

Regarding Secicar Frantz as far as I read it in "IAR 80 story of the unknown hero" it is related as follows:
Shot down 25 September, found at Dealu Feleacului by Romanian soldiers, hanged by his feet beaten and Skeen alive, from local inhabitants accountings he was captured by Hungarian troops and executed by a squad of Hungarian Crosses with Arrows

Regarding the Hungarians crimes as far as I know there was an ample and well documented memorandum prepared by Iuliu Maniu and his party during the war, so hm I don't think you can accuse him of being ultra-nationalistic.

Regarding war crimes my opinion is that there is no war without war crimes but at the end of all wars only the one who loses the war will be judged for his crimes, as the winner is the one who is writing the official history, the loser sources are dismiss as nationalistic, extremist, etc. As an example of recent history we can all remember Katyn.

This cannot be true, as the extremist Arrow Cross regime came into power in Hungary only after Horthy's futile attempt to exit his country from the war on October 15, 1944.

I would not comment the rest.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 11, 2008 01:55 pm