The Vienna Arbitration

Yes, since I am from Bacau, which is quite near :wink: ....

I am talking about statistics, not about the romanian situation there. I do not think that the romanian government has no power there, it just preferred not to interfere and leave the hungarians an illusion of power and self-independence....

QUOTE

QUOTE Moreover, by the same logic, we might consider that some Jews declared themselves as Rumanian, to escape persecution, or that some Hungarians declared themselves German, to entitle themselves to certain advantages (remember, the German minority had a 'special' situation from the Vienna Arbitration of 1940 on, both in Hungary and Rumania), and so on.   Again, it was not my logic, it was the Corvinus' statement... read my post carefully... and check the link... Well, to be a Romanian seemed to be more dangerous... until 1944 ... if you know what I mean... I see no reason for Jewish to declare themselves as Romanians... As the Romanias say: "Ar cadea din lac in putz!". As for Hungarians... let's be serious... they were about to be a part again of Hungary... At least try to sustain your statement with facts... What you say is just a speculation as long as even Corvinus library does not mention it as possibility.

Why do you think the Corvinus library - a collection of various books and articles on the topic, written by a large variety of authors with different orientation - is the holy bible, where some parts must to be taken at face value (and some others not)? Why, if a certain author included in this library does not mention certain things they don't exist?
As for you asking me for facts, I have already given them earlier, in form of 'unexplained' official census figures, no matter if I 'like' them or not.

QUOTE

Ion I C Bratianu (the prime-minister) mentioned in front of the Peace Conference the fact that the Romanians were the most numerous in Transylvania, but his major argument was that Romania had the right of the winner.

This is exactly what I meant in my earlier posts, when explaining the turn of events in 1918-1919 involving Transylvania with the realpolitik of those times.

QUOTE

QUOTE Did you ever visit Harghita and Covasna in person? Before or after forced population displacement ?

When I read your statement, my first thoughts were...
But doesn't matter. Let put it in a polite way:

In what world are you living? In a parallel Universe?
About what forced population displacement are you talking about?

Now, if you'll bother to answer, please mention very clearly:
-what population displacement are you talking about?
-when it happened?
-precisely where it happened (what county?)
-and according to what do you know, how many people were displaced?

Florin
PS: And just if you want to say, in what country are you living?

Florin, if you want to find out if a forced population displacement actually took place in Transylvania or not, you don't need to wait for somebody else's answer, as you can check out the subsequent Rumanian census figures yourself and compare them with the country-wide rate population growth (difference between the number of live births and deaths) for those time periods.
Allow a slim margin for emigration, which was negligable between 1950 and 1985, however.
If you decide to do this exercise, let us know the results you found.

QUOTE

Before or after forced population displacement ?

QUOTE

When I read your statement, my first thoughts were... But doesn't matter. Let put it in a polite way:

You wanted to be rude. If it doesn't matter, why tell me ? :?

QUOTE

In what world are you living? In a parallel Universe?

In Europe.

QUOTE

Now, if you'll bother to answer, please mention very clearly: -what population displacement are you talking about?

Ceaucescu liquidation of villages seeking to erase all pre-socialist culture and population relocation in agro industrial complexes. Badly perceived by segments of the Hungarian minorities as an attempt to disperse / annihilate / assimilate Hungarian culture. In this instance my source is the Robert Schuman foundation.

QUOTE

-when it happened?

During the communist period

QUOTE

-precisely where it happened (what county?)

I can't go down to that level of detail and it's precisely the sort of thing I'm interested in.

QUOTE

And just if you want to say, in what country are you living?

All personal, private information that I wish to make public is conveniently arranged in my profile so that I don't need to repeat it every post. I'm not asking your ICQ number or your e-Mail adress because I know you decided to keep this info private and I respect your wish.

QUOTE

........ Ceaucescu liquidation of villages seeking to erase all pre-socialist culture and population relocation in agro industrial complexes. Badly perceived by segments of the Hungarian minorities as an attempt to disperse / annihilate / assimilate Hungarian culture. In this instance my source is the Robert Schuman foundation...

Victims of the liquidation of villages were also the Romanians, alongside the Hungarians, and it happened everywhere between the borders of Romania: in Transylvania, in Moldavia, in Oltenia, in Wallachia, in Dobrogea.
It was the will of a mad dictator against all his subjects living in countryside, and did not target the Hungarians in special.
Did you also find this in the sources of Robert Schuman foundation?

QUOTE

I'm not asking your ICQ number or your e-Mail adress because I know you decided to keep this info private and I respect your wish.

The fact that I asked you if you want to say in what country you are living can be considered a private question. However, you cannot compare it with asking your ICQ or your email address.
OK, if it is such a huge secret to say the country where you live, I respect it.

QUOTE

Florin, if you want to find out if a forced population displacement actually took place in Transylvania or not, you don't need to wait for somebody else's answer, as you can check out the subsequent Rumanian census figures yourself and compare them with the country-wide rate population growth (difference between the number of live births and deaths) for those time periods.   Allow a slim margin for emigration, which was negligable between 1950 and 1985, however. If you decide to do this exercise, let us know the results you found.

Denes, I don't have the time to make right now this search, but I guess the census in Transylvania may show some rise of the Romanian population. If the numbers wouldn't support you, you wouldn't mention this here.

However, Chandernagore used the words forced population displacement. Now, I did not live in Transylvania but I know that many Moldavians migrated there for jobs, especially as workers in factories. Many Romanians from Transylvania disliked that, and they were as unhappy about the Moldavian newcomers as the Hungarians.
The same Moldavians migrated to be workers in factories in the rest of the country: Wallachia, Dobrogea, less in Oltenia.
The Communist regime, when opened new factories and mines, encouraged people to come to work by erecting multi-apartment building for living, and shop, and schools etc.
However, can you consider this forced population displacement?
This time I am talking to you, a reasonable person.
Even in capitalist countries when the government opened new factories, mines or dams of national interest, they built houses for living, paid high wages, and offered other compensations. But again... Is this a forced population displacement?

And about emigration... Depending what nationalities you are talking about. Considering the Germans, it was not negligible at all.
I saw there are many Hungarians in Canada, by the way (over a quarter of a million), but I guess the source were all areas with Hungarians, altogether.

QUOTE

QUOTE ........ Ceaucescu liquidation of villages seeking to erase all pre-socialist culture and population relocation in agro industrial complexes. Badly perceived by segments of the Hungarian minorities as an attempt to disperse / annihilate / assimilate Hungarian culture. In this instance my source is the Robert Schuman foundation... Victims of the liquidation of villages were also the Romanians, alongside the Hungarians, and it happened everywhere between the borders of Romania: in Transylvania, in Moldavia, in Oltenia, in Wallachia, in Dobrogea. It was the will of a mad dictator against all his subjects living in countryside, and did not target the Hungarians in special. Did you also find this in the sources of Robert Schuman foundation?

Their study on minorities is not the Holy Bible. But claims were made anyway and several things would benefit from being clarified / researched.

QUOTE

OK, if it is such a huge secret to say the country where you live, I respect it.

Thanks.

You are losing it, Victor, losing it badly. I understand Denes is your friend but if the Vienna Diktat is now “arbitration” and you leave the thread’s title grinning its revisionist fangs then you are extremely weak. Maybe you argued back inside the thread, I don’t intend to read another volume of the same insidious and relentless Hungarian studied innocence so I give you this credit, then place a least some !? or anything that could show a bit of relativity to something that is otherwise exactly the position of Horthy’s Hungary. Really, Denes is not that imposing, straighten up, man!

QUOTE

You are losing it, Victor, losing it badly. I understand Denes is your friend but if the Vienna Diktat is now “arbitration” and you leave the thread’s title grinning its revisionist fangs then you are extremely weak. Maybe you argued back inside the thread, I don’t intend to read another volume of the same insidious and relentless Hungarian studied innocence so I give you this credit, then place a least some !? or anything that could show a bit of relativity to something that is otherwise exactly the position of Horthy’s Hungary. Really, Denes is not that imposing, straighten up, man!

Actually it wasn't me who split the old thread and created this one (with the new title). It was dragos.

Yep. No comments then.

Only in Romanian:

The letter of Adolf Hitler to King Carol II (17 July 1940)

Considerations regarding the evolution of the Hungarian revisionism and Romania

Mihail Manoilescu recollection about the Vienna Diktat

The text of Vienna Arbitration

The issue of accepting the "arbitration"

If we will start to talk about massonery and sionism everybody will blame us .... :wink:

We can talk endless about this topic. Hungary and Romania can have a war at every 50 years for Transilvania but this will not "solve" something.

Those are the facts : In Transilvania live now a romanian majority and, at second place (as proportion) hungarians. They (hungarians) are there from 1000 years. We cannot ignore their economical and cultural anchievements in Transilvania.

In those 1000 years we know very well who sufferred the most. But we cannot ask from the peoples from 1500 to act in conformity with UE laws .

The single possible way for future is to live toghether in peace. Both of nations have to forgive something. In time - after we will (ever? :?: ) be a part of UE this problem will be a historical one ... I just hope to be an european citizen as soon is possible.