Tidal Wave Footage Photos, 15th AAF and Luftwaffe, 'Black Sunday', 1 August 1943

Yes Dan indeed they worked hard along with the Germans to restore the aircrafts, what a shame that there are no records left

Al

That's not a new idea. The Germans used the same technique before. Even the inflatable balloons in the photo look to me as German type.

Gen. Dénes

It looks you have more knowledge in aviation repairs works than me
Probably you are right , romanians did not invented the wheel and the hot water.

Dan.

Here is a PK photo of German Flak troops guarding Ploesti.

Gen. Dénes

Attached Image

Denes , I did post already this 20mm flack battery photo a few screen prior this...what I needed and still need to know what would the French Volunteers Division would do in Roumania ...( see their helmets replica) I havent seen that before and I thought they havent been in Roumania

Alex

The tri-colour decal seen on the side of the soldiers' helmets is not a French one (despite the similar colours), but a regular feature of Wehrmacht helmets. Why the shield? I don't know.

Gen. Dénes

Here is a standard Wehrmach M. 1935 Stahlhelm, Heer.

Gen. Dénes

Attached Image

Denes

Thanks you, I am still curious to know what that emblema stands for , I saw it somany times only at special units

Thanks
Alex

Dear Pat :

I was glad to see your note on the Romanian military site, confirming that
"Hail Columbia" had indeed been scrapped after crash-landing on Cyprus. Rumors
continue to arise, to the effect that "HC" was somehow repaired and returned
to service, but Victor Genereux was clear at the Ploesti Reunion: the aircraft
was too badly damaged to be repaired, and was scrapped. Victor was the
Consolidated rep in North Africa, so he should know. (He says he snagged the hub
cover from the pilot's wheel as a souvenir.)

You mentioned that you interviewed a 98th line chief who helped scrap the
plane on Cyprus. I'm wondering who it was, and if you have any details that
might be of interest to this group. As you probably know, one of our pet subjects
has been the bomb-bay tanks -- how many per plane, whether they could be
jettisoned or not, etc. Did the line chief say anything about BB tanks in "Hail
Columbia" -- i.e., were any remaining in the ship when they scrapped it? Kane,
also Dugan/Stewart, wrote that at least one BB tank was jettisoned from "HC",
while others have written that it was impossible to jettison BB tanks at the
time of the mission. Perhaps you have info that might solve this dispute.
It's even possible that Kane had one of Gura's quick-release systems installed
on the ship, which would jibe with what Art Plouff (98th ground crewman)
described to me.

By the way, it was nice to see the photos of your great "HC" model. Have you
sent any copies to Norm Whalen? I'm sure he'd like to have some. (When you
say you interviewed the two surviving crewmembers, I assume you mean Joe
LaBranche and Norm. Do you know how Joe LaBranche is doing these days?) I gather you feel that "Hail Columbia" never had the "Little Chief/Big Dog" nose art. I haven't looked into this topic as much as you and Bill Whitney have, so
that's a "Who Shot John?" question that I'll leave to you experts...

Best regards,
Al S.

Hi Will,

I have copied and pasted below an extract from an email I sent to the BestWeb Team together with a note in red from Pete Johnson and an email from Bob Livingstone.

The reference to 389th BG is the result of my interpretation of an entry reading as follows on a handwritten list of the first 71 Operational Missions (Completed) prepared by Headquarters 389th BG, Office of the Operations Officer:

No: 15
Date: Sept 21
A/C dispatched: 20
Gp No: 18
Target: Leghorn
LOSSES
No; 1
A/C No: 787
Pilots MIA: no name shown (strange because a name is shown for all other losses)

Knowing that 389th BG's other aircraft on the list with the last three 787 (42-40787) was lost on the 18 Nov 43 mission to Oslo-Kjeller, I wrongly deduced albeit reluctantly that the 787 on 21 Sep 43 was 41-23787, which therefore had been transferred or loaned to 389th in MTO.

I now think that the 787 on 21 Sep 43 was 42-40787, which might have been reported MIA but landed away and subsequently returned to base without all the proper paper work being done (understandable because the conditions in Tunisia were probably difficult).

Reverting to 41-23787, I cannot recall the source of the information that it was left damaged by 44th BG at Benina Main. However, I was told 20 years ago by Stewart Evans when he was still researching 8th AF B-24s that 41-23787 is recorded somewhere on 28 Aug 43 as transferred to MTO. I am certain that this date is a "paperwork" administrative one and has no bearing on when any transfer, accident or loss occurred.

There seems to be complete conflict between the mission record of 41-23787, the mission record of 1/Lt. Gordon S. Stevens and his crew and the Accident Report.

41-23787 flew 3 missions in May before leaving for North Africa and a further 8 missions out of Benina Main, Libya, from 2 through 19 July. The aircraft is not recorded on any further missions.

The Stevens crew flew 41-23787 on 6 of those 8 missions out of Benina Main, including the last one on 19 July. The crew went on to fly on the 1 Aug 43 Ploesti and other missions in other aircraft. At least 8 of the crew members remained the same until 15 Sep 43. Stevens' next mission was on 20 Oct 43 by which time the crew had changed almost completely.

What was 41-23787 piloted by 1/Lt. Gordon S. Stevens doing when it crashed on take-off on 22 Jul 43 at AAF 347 (not 437), Ibsley, Hampshire, home of the 48th FG? Who were the 4 killed? Why is there no mention of this in the 44th BG ROH?

All this leads me to doubt the accuracy of the summary of that Accident Report, taken presumably from the AAIR database. Has anyone seen the Report itself?

Your and anyone else's comments would be much appreciated.

All the best,

Tom.

Hi Guys,

I quote from Will Lundy's reply:

"In Norm Kiefer's book, page 58, is this: John Huber, Bombardier on Gordon S. Stevens crew, 506th stated that: Our first plane, AC #787 B-Bar TEXAN was selected by Gordon S. Stevens because it was parked closer.--- Stevens told Michaels to have Texan painted off the nose and he would take it. This crew was the 506th Sq. 1st replacement.

It flew four missions from Shipdham, and then flown to Africa with the 44th BG. It then flew missions (all by Lt. Stevens) on July 2, 5,6,10,12, 15 and 19th. That was the last with the 44th BG, and Norm Kiefer does not record why they left it in North Africa.

Kiefer wrote on 19 July (in part) Taking off that morning were: A/Cs 606X, by Bunce; A/C 787, B-Bar piloted by Stevens, etc. But nowhere are there any reports of damages to our planes that day. That also was the last mission flown by the 44th until Ploesti. So somewhere in that 9 day period this plane must have been damaged. The 44th had no spare planes and Lt. Carpemnter had to "borrow" a plane to fly on Ploesti. No record of it after Ploesti, either."

In view of this, I have decided to order a copy of the complete Accident Report. I quote from the email I have just sent to Craig Fuller:

"There are several things in the entry on the AAIR database for this accident that need clarification. Both the aircraft (41-23787) and the pilot (Gordon S Stevens) were with 44th BG, 506th BS, on deployment in Libya at the time in readiness for the 1 Aug 43 low level Ploesti mission. Stevens had flown 41-23787, his assigned aircraft, on a combat mission on 19 Jul 43. This is the last date on which the aircraft appears in combat records. Stevens flew another aircraft on the 1 Aug 43 mission. 44th BG flew no combat missions between those two dates but it seems that 41-23787 was involved in an accident on 22 Jul 43 with Stevens at the controls, probably on a training mission. I cannot believe that the accident happened in England at Ibsley (which was Station 347 not 437). Lastly, the 44th BG ROH makes no mention of four KIA on 22 Jul 43. Hopefully, the actual Report will enable us to put the record straight."

Ler's hope we shall soon have the answer to this riddle that has been bugging me for too long.

Tom.

This post has been edited by alexkdl on February 03, 2005 10:36 pm

Thanks Norm. The outstanding questions seem to be what happened that it stopped flying missions with the 44th BG after the Rome mission, and whether the 8/28/43 date was purely an administrative date. I have seen a number of USAAF records that show 8th AF B-24's having loss and transfer dates for 8/28/43 (give or take a day) that were definitely lost in North Africa or enroute to and from on earlier dates. This seems in many cases to have been a catch all date for explaining which aircraft did not return to England from detached service.

The primary confusion is that there appears to be an official accident report for Lt. Stevens and 41-23787 for July 22, 1943 in England. This is almost impossible since both he and the aircraft were in Bengasi on July 19th, and Lt. Stevens was back in Bengasi on August 1st to fly the Ploesti mission in 42-41013 Trouble. Something is awry, and the aircraft seems to have disappeared - nothing truly mysterious I am sure, just some event that missed the official records or an administrative paperwork mis-shuffle.

Thanks again for your help!

Chris

67th Sq., #42-40780 H, Jones AVAILABLE JONES MACR #2411
67th Squadron Crew:

JONES, FRED H. Pilot 1st Lt. Century,POW, Florida
DUKATE, ELBERT L. Jr. Co-pilot 2nd Lt. New Orleans, POW, escapee, returned to base 31 July 44 Louisiana
SWEET, ADOLPHUS J. Navigator 2nd Lt. POW New York
BERNARD, ALBERT F. Bombardier 2nd Lt. Brooklyn,POW New York
SPANN, LEO G. Engineer T/Sgt. Chapman,POW Alabama
PAOLILLO, MICHAEL A. Radio Oper. T/Sgt. Corona, L.I.,POW New York
BECKER, ROBERT H. Asst. Eng. S/Sgt. Lincoln, POW, WIA Nebraska
SAVETTIERRE, ANTHONY J. Waist gun S/Sgt. Brooklyn, POW, wounded New York
SIGLE, MICHAEL P. Tail Turret S/Sgt. Clayton, POW, escapee New Jersey

1st Lt. Fred H. Jones’ crew was the second 67th Squadron loss on 1 August 1943. T/Sgt. Leo Spann, engineer, described the mission: “We approached the target at Ploesti down the railroad track at a very low altitude of approximately 100 feet. Our target was already on fire as some other Group [the 93rd] had already bombed it. We went through the smoke and fire, dropping our bombs on our designated spot. We then went down on the deck as low as we could, as those picturesque hay stacks opened up and then revealed their guns – and these guns started giving us hell.

They shot out the #4 engine and a shell exploded between the two waist gun positions, wounding both gunners in the legs. I was the engineer and operated the top turret and I had a complete view of what was going on. I saw one plane that had gone in with the wheels up in a field and all of that crew was outside of the plane.“We broke one balloon cable and I was looking directly at it when we collided with it. I saw another B-24 climb straight up until it stalled, and just as it “fell out” I saw one parachute come out and open just before it hit the ground. I talked later to this boy (Bernard Traudt) as he came into the prison camp where I was.

We lost speed and dropped out of formation, and the fighters jumped us. With the two waist gunners out, they came in so close to us it seemed we could almost touch them. We figured that we had shot down four of them, and they finally left us, but the #4 engine had frozen up and with a flat propeller, it caused a hellava drag. The propeller would not feather! “We started trying to gain altitude to clear the mountains ahead. Threw out everything that wasn’t tied down – all of the guns, ammunition, equipment, etc. When we finally arrived at the coast, our #3 engine was failing. The oil pressure was almost gone and the temperature was much
too high. Lt. Jones asked me how long I thought it would last and I estimated about 30 minutes at the most.

We decided to feather #3 engine and see if we could fly with the other two, but they were on the same side! If we couldn’t fly, we were going to ditch it on the beach. “I feathered the prop, Jones and Dukate got the plane leveled out, but we could not maintain our altitude. So we began making plans to ditch. We flew onward for approximately forty-five minutes before we were forced to ditch – the time was about 1840 – at least that is the time that my watch stopped. We all managed to get out of the plane and into our life rafts, even though the
tail gunner and the navigator were slightly injured in the ditching. “The next morning a German submarine came by, started to help us, changed their minds and took off, leaving us. Then, at approximately 1500 hours, a three-engined Italian seaplane sighted us, landed and picked us up and took us to Brindisi, Italy and to the hospital there. “Later that same night, Jones, Dukate, Bernard, Paolillo and myself were put on a train and sent into the mountains – to an old monastery. Much later, both Sigle and Dukate managed to escape, with Sigle getting back to the States in about two months.”

Fred Jones, the pilot, wrote: “We ditched 30 miles south of Corfu. All crew okay. Saw all crewmembers at Camp Lucky Strike May 1945, except co-pilot Dukate, who escaped and Sigle, who escaped in Italy, 1943.

From 44th Heavy Bombardment Grp

This post has been edited by alexkdl on February 03, 2005 11:42 pm

Hi Alex,

Have you received my pictures yet? Also, do you have
Bill Whitney's email address? Thank you for doing all
you're doing for us. I'm doing it for the JOSE CARIOCA
crew and any crew that may still be there? I hope they
are all at peace. Let all your Romanian friends know
this.

Regards,
Joe Gonzales
San Antonio, Texas
(family member of the JOSE CARIOCA Co-Pilot)

I don't usually respond to most of the postings,having discovered that I'm pretty much out of my depth in what I know about the groups, planes and men
involved in Tidal Wave, but I think I can help with the question about "Little Chief/Big Dog" nose art on "Hail Columbia".

My father was William R. Hall, assigned as a mechanic with the 343rd Squadron of the 98th B.G. from Ft. Myers, FL to Lecce, Italy. He kept diaries in 1943 and
1944 on a nearly daily basis. On March 22, 1943, he wrote that he was assigned to the ground crew for "Little Chief/Big Dog" with Cpl. Brannon as crew chief.
His diary entries from then until July, 1943 reflected the work done on that specific aircraft.

On July 23, 1943 he said "Col. Kane and a General took ship up on a low alt. formation hop. Col. Kane like the ship.". On July 24, 1943, he wrote, "Col. Kane had Big Dog transferred to 44th to use his his own ship.". My dad's crew (by the time of Tidal Wave he was Assistant Crew Chief) was then given "Edna Elizabeth",
an older ship that took off for Ploesti but had to turn back after being over the Mediterranean for a short time.

A further bit of evidence that my Dad worked on "Little Chief/Big Dog" was a set of pictures, usually with crews in front of aircraft they flew, that he was
given in a small wallet. One picture is a crew posed on the co-pilot's side of a B-24 with "Little Chief Big Dog" painted distinctly on the nose. My father's notes on the back of the picture are as follows: "This crew went down in Med. all lost on Alice the Goon. Cracked up on Cyprus after raid on Rumanian oil fields." He also showed the dates he was the Assistant Crew Chief, 4-4-43, 5-4-43 and 5-5-43.

Since my father indicated that the crew in the picture was lost with "Alice the Goon" (and in another diary entry, it was lost on January 20, 1943 during a
mission to Tripoli) and the nose art was on "Little Chief Big Dog" before they were lost, it seems pretty certain that the nose art was there when it was
transferred to the 344th for Col. Kane's use in Tidal Wave.

I'm still trying to figure out the business with the saboteurs who destroyed "Arkansas Traveler" and a British "Wimpy"; seems to me someone has said it was really a story concocted to cover up use of avgas that
accidentally went up and destroyed the B-24. My dad's diary indicated that he was posted to guard duty that night at the "Wimpy" and he didn't have a lot of doubt
it involved the enemy, not failure to pay attention to regulations.

Always enjoy reading the postings and the pictures.

Douglas L. Hall