Tidal Wave Footage Photos, 15th AAF and Luftwaffe, 'Black Sunday', 1 August 1943

Dear Al (Blue, that is) and List:

I encourage you to post the Tibbets article. Have you seen Bob Greene's book
"Duty", which is primarily about Tibbets? While preparing the book, Greene
had a bunch of conversations with Tibbets during meals -- presumably both of
them packed away the groceries.

Bob, thanks for the notes about Col. Kane. Speaking of books, were you aware
that Kane's 1980s articles in the "American Aviation Historical Society
Journal" were excerpted from an unpublished autobiography, evidently completed many
years earlier? Pete Frizzell thought the manuscript may have been lost or
otherwise disposed of, but it's hard to imagine Kane or his family intentionally
dumping it. Does anybody know if the manuscript survived? Kenn Rust said it
was never published in book form because Kane took a lot of swipes at the top
brass.

I heard a story about the "last straw" that drove Kane off the job... he was
base commander at Smoky Hill AFB in the '50s. A regional commander (not
widely respected) visited the base with his girlfriend in tow, and ordered a base
alert... for no other reason than to impress the girlfriend. As the story
goes, Kane was so disgusted he walked off. Some of the brass wanted to
court-martial him, but they figured it wouldn't look good to court-martial an MoH
awardee. It took a few years to work out the official retirement. Kane may also
have been angry about the double-standards... Gen. Brereton picked up a
girlfriend while 10th AF commander in India, and she continued to fly around North
Africa with him until Gen. Marshall ordered him to send her back to the States.
(Nobody can claim Brereton didn't have an eye for the ladies.) Kane married
his RAF girlfriend and they were together until she died, over 30 years I
believe. It wasn't entered into lightly... her upper-crust English family disowned
her, and Kane's divorce from his first wife added more damage to his career.
Fortunately, he reconciled with his son after many years. Last I heard, his
first wife (Pansy) was still kickin'. Kane was a controversial figure, but a
colorful one.

Earl, let us know if you ever solve the Milkmaid Question. A man cannot live
on discussion of fuel cells and fixed-.50s alone...

Best regards,
Al S.

Hello everybody,

My name is Bill and I've been interested in the Ploesti raid ever
since I read my Dad's copy of the Dugan/Stewart book twenty years ago.
(Mr Sternfels, thanks for the copy of your book.)

About a month ago I happened upon a gentleman in the grocery store
wearing a hat with a 98th patch, and I stopped to ask him about it.
His name is Walter Salmon, and while he didn't fly on 1 August, he did
fly missions before and after it (he was in the infirmary for the
low-level raid.) I'm getting together with him at some point in the
next couple of weeks to talk more about Africa and the 98th with him,
and I'll share my/his stories with all of you.

regards,
Bill D.

Hi guys,

I got the diorama out of storage to send some pics to another guy on the web and I thought I'd include them here, in case you're interested. You've seen this model before but my pictures are so bad, maybe together they add up to something.

Best wishes,

Pat


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Al & Blaine,

I wanted to take a shot at the questions that have been posed regarding the gun configuration carried by the 98th lead ship on TW. I had always considered the photo on pg. 241 of Hill's book inconclusive. It appears that at one time this plane carried an arrangement identical to that of Wongo Wongo and that the extra guns had been removed and the ports covered, which still may be the case. I assumed that if the guns had been reinstalled, they would have gone back into their original mounts.

Rather that pour over a copy of a copy with a magnifying glass, I fired off a note to Art Plouff. Below is a portion of his response, which I have neither added to nor embellished upon. On 1 August, Art was a 344th sq. line mechanic assigned to Gaston's Rowdy II. Art serviced Hail Columbia on many occasions and on the eve of the mission, was called on to fix a reoccurring oil leak that almost grounded Kane's beloved bird (then what would we have to talk about).

".......YES THERE WERE TWO EXTRA 50 CALIBER GUNS MOUNTED IN THE NOSE OF HAIL COLUMBIA, BOTH FACING DOWNWARD SO THAT THEY COULD TAKE OUT FLAK TOWERS, AND PERSONNEL ON THE GROUND. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY THEY EACH HAD 1500 ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION, THATS BESIDES THE REGULAR 3 GUNS IN THE NOSE OF THE B-24DS. THE AMMO BELTS THAT SUPPLIED THE FIVE GUNS LEFT VERY LITTLE SPACE FOR THE BOMBARDIER AND NAVAGATOR. KANE HAD A BUTTON ON HIS STEERING WHEEL THAT PUT THOSE EXTRA TWO GUN INTO ACTION. NORMAN WHALEN NEVER HAD FLOWN WITH KANE BUT HEARD MANY STORIES ABOUT HOW ROUGH KANE COULD BE WITH 2/LTS . AS THEY START THEIR BOMB RUN KANE WAS GOING IN WITH HIS GUNS FIRING FULL BLAST AND WHALEN WAS UP TO HIS ASS IN RED HOT CASINGS TRYING TO KICK THEM OUT THE NOSE WHEEL OPENING, AND KANE HOLLERD DOWN TO WHALEN TO FIX HIS GUNS AS THEY WERE NOT FIRING ANYMORE, AFTER STUTTERING FOR FIVE MINUTES WHALEN ANSWERED SIR-SIR- SIR YOU HAVE SHOT ALL YOUR AMMUNITION. WITH THAT KANE HAD FEATHERED AN OUTBOARD ENGINE AND ASKED WHALEN FOR THE SHORTEST ROUTE TO A FRIENDLY FIELD? WHALEN ANSWERED THEY HAD TO FLY AROUND TURKEY TO GET TO CYPRUS. KANE ANSWERED FLY OVER TURKEY AND SAID TO SHOOT THE BASTARDS DOWN IF THEY TRY TO STOP US ....... "

The amount of ammunition mentioned in D&S has always intrigued me and Art recalls an even higher number. I have a feeling 240 rounds in 10 sec might be closer to the mark. One hundred seconds is a lot of continous firing for a belt-fed weapon and 2400 rounds is a lot of extra weight (840 lbs) in the nose, not to mention storage. For comparison, a B-24D with the 3-gun nose carried just over 2700 rounds standard (including the monorail cans) for the entire plane.

Pat



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Dear Al (Salton, that is) and gang

Boy, being assigned to Smoky Hill AFB is like being transferred to Thule AFB or Johnson Island, out in the boonies.

Re Courts Martial, it must go down in history. Many years ago General John Brooks
mentioned that Major William H. Yaeger, Sqdn Comdr, Command Pilot on Neef's crew, down in Romania as POWs, was court martialed after the war. I was
reluctant to follow up on that but during our SLC TW reunion I talked to one of the crew members on Neef's crew who advised that Major Yaeger did inform on the guys who were building a tunnel to escape. Being a hacker, on the golf course
that is, I had one of our masters on the computer check that out but it seems there is no record of the court martial on file. Yaeger disapeared after the war so who
knows what evil..............

On my way to the 2n AD reunion in May i plan to go by Hot Springs AR and have
tea with my Sqdn Comdr of the 565th, Col Paul Burton. He was shot down on
22 Apr 44 and POW until he escaped. He has a book out, "Escape From Terror".
He recently moved and his books are in storage but I plan to take some to the
reunion for him..... Paul not getting around much these days and although not on
the TW caper (a hairbrained escapade according to Webster) I hope to get his
permission to copy his files of the 389th BG. He is an original of the 389th and should have lots of goodies in his files... I have one bottle of wine from our TW thing in SLC which I hope we can dilute our tea with....

I don't think we will ever get the answer to the Milkmaid question. If the responsible gentleman is still with us he hasn't made himself know. If he has gone to that Great Interrogation Room in the Sky, I assume he passed on with a smile
on his face. Other than the Milkmaid thing, I still lay awake at night wondering
where all the ashtrays were located on the plane.

You old timers take your pills.

The Earl of Chicago, I outrank the Baron of Whalen.



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Gang

I hold in my hand a copy of the first edition of Red Target by Victor Dumitru in
Romanian and he says the Englander version will be out soon. I will have to
pry something loose in my plumbing so I can call my Romanian plumber to scan
a little of the book for me to get a head start on you guys. It is very well illustrated with photos, maps and drawings....

Well, why not a book about the Group that completely destroyed their target.
A little glitch prior to reaching Campina but I hear a rumor that some of the other
Group's navigators were on Eastern Standard Time and made the wrong turn.

Earl

Does anyone know the details of this book?

Gen. Dénes

Alex

I am not surprised that you are puzzled with some of the historians on the
TW thing, some of them are still working on who shot the president many years
ago, Abraham Lincoln, and think the culprit is hiding out in a barn in Virginia. In any case, the book is by Victor Dumitru from Campina.

The book is titled "Tinta Rosie" RAFINARIA,,STEAUA ROMANA' CAMPINA
ISBN: 973-8372-78-4

Editura Fundatiei Culturale Libra Buchuresti 2004

Victor advises that an English version will be out soon.

The reunion of the 2nd Air Division will be May 27-30 at the Hyatt Reg Hotel, tel
number 210-222-1234, San Antonio Texas. If you plan to attend, contact:
Evelyn Cohen, address: 06-410 Delaire Landing Road, Philadelphia, PA 19114,
her phone number 215-632-3992. She will send you the applications...

I will be there Alex. Hope you can shoot two rabbits with one bullet....
t will be a pleasure to meet you, let me know if you will attend, I will make sure
you have a good time and meet the TW boys.

Take your pills

Earl

This post has been edited by alexkdl on March 24, 2005 06:50 pm

Salut Alex

Good luck on getting together with Victor... like they say here, you guys should
move into town and take the newspaper then you will know whats going on
in Rumania. Yes, I should think Victor with a Halliburton email will know more than the average bear.

Will be a pleasure to trade secrets with you at the reunion. I might be persuaded to tell you about some of the wild Turkish girls in Ankara. Or, my time in the code room at the embassy and 'Operation Cicero'.... the spy in the British Embassy..

Hope Henry Lasco will share what he has in his footlocker with us.

One of our retired Colonels who was assigned to NATO in Izmir dug up some of
Mooney's plane and sent me a piece of tubbing. If Ent left parts of his plane as
souvenirs I'll buy you a monster drink...

I say 'utmost for the reunion' and I might even let you touch my gold bracelet, with five gold sovereigns from escape kits, if you show up.

Earl


This post has been edited by alexkdl on March 24, 2005 07:59 pm

TW funs here something about this acft...6 guns and two patches

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Compton was certainly responsible for the wrong turn towards Bucharest at Targoviste and he (eventually) took responsibility for that error. However, I’ve always had some sympathy for the position he found himself in that day. It appears likely that Thompson turned the group just short of the IP at Pitesti and it was this error that placed the group on the wrong track towards Targoviste and Floresti.



Compton assumed navigation duties at that point, but because he wasn’t where he was supposed to be, nothing he saw out of his windshield matched the perspective drawings that he had been provided. The group is advancing at 150 knots, he knows that he has a decision coming at him very fast and all the data he needs to make that decision is wrong.



It was probably wrong (and bad procedure to boot) for Compton to try and navigate from the flight deck – Thompson at least would have been keeping closer track of the time (if not the place) when the turn needed to be made. But the original error that led to all the other errors and bad decisions was, I believe, made by Thompson at Pitesti, not by Compton at Targoviste.



Regards,

Rick Behnke

Alex

We will have to give Henry a little time to collect his thoughts and dig down in
the footlocker. I see Bob answered your Q about Potts.... a lawyer, or sometimes
known here as an ambulance chaser..... have mercy.

address: just in case you have some gold bullion you have to get rid of....



Bobs waiting for his postman to deliver his pills from Canada.

Take care

Earl

Alex,

During the TW Reunion in Salt Lake City, Utah a few years ago, I met Henry Lasco and could not believe how great he looked. From the photos before the reconstruction it was almost impossible to know who it was.

How I got to know Henry is a different story.

For years he worked next to my brother Herb who was VP at 3M Co. Henry was in charge of sales. My brother never mentioned me to Henry but when
Henry was driving down a street in the town of Fountain Hills, Ariz. he saw a sign reading Robert Sternfels, Attorney At Law. Knowing there can't be many Sternfels around he stopped and found out about me. My son's office is loaded with Ploesti pictures and he even sells my book at the office. He also gives them away to clients. Henry called and revisited TW.

Bob Sternfels

Earl,

Being enjoying the Es.. As far as the navigation being done on Compton's plane, without doubt the navigator was in charge UNTIL they were approaching the IP at Floresti. Knowing that Compton did have charts to follow along the route(good idea on Compton's part) he however made the decision to turn at Travo. Now how can I make this statement? When I was interviewing him before my book was written, he stated this...quote..."No one else was responsible for the WRONG TURN. I EXCEPT FULL RESPONSIBILITY" This statement was made about the year 2000 and most of the BRASS involved with TW had passed away. However, Alex wrote me a passage from a review made by the Air Force #AAFRH 3 dated June 1944 in which their story does not lay blame on Compton but states it was just a error due to the heavy concentration of defenses! This is BULL! Compton didn't get any fire as he was over corn fields and railroad tracks most of the way. Also, you must remember that Compton's group had the least losses of any group and ONLY ONE PLANE HAD TO LAND IN TURKEY BECAUSE OF ENGINE FAILURE! One turned back and one was lost when it crashed in the water.
DURING MY INTERVIEWS COMPTON HE MADE A REMARK THAT WE DID NOT USE IN THE BOOK BUT IT WAS RATHER ODD FOR HIM TO SAY THIS IF HE WASN'T THE ONE WHO GOOFED! HE said that when he was part of SAC, he demanded that the pilots FOLLOW THE BOMBING PLAN AND NO DEVIATIONS.!
Doesn't this tell us he felt guilt about TW!!!!!!

Take those pills, Earl

Have a good day, Bob

Dear Dale and Rick:

Thanks for your input on the Wrong Turn. Always good to hear from you.

When Bill Whitney was preparing the TW route map for the Ploesti Reunion in
2003, he consulted Norman Appold, Norman Whalen, Fred Mueller, Cornell Iliescu,
and a number of other participants/observers. He also examined the TW sortie
reports, most of which are admittedly (and understandably) sparse. The
surviving data indicates that the 98th's cruise speed was the same -- possibly a
little higher -- than the 376th's, which is interesting, considering that the
prevailing wisdom has always been that Kane flew too slowly and let the 376th &
93rd disappear ahead of him. (For what it's worth, Kane vehemently denied in
AAFRH-3 that he had elected to fly at a lower cruise speed than the first two
groups.) Bob Sternfels has observed that -- from his position -- the 376th
was out of sight practically from the get-go. Perhaps the 376th formed up and
headed north before the 98th did, and Kane increased his speed over the Med to
catch up. In any case, the sortie reports of the 98th/44th/389th contain many
notations regarding the Flavelle crash... the actual crash, not just the
smoke on the water. Obviously, some elements of these three groups were close
enough to the 376th to observe the crash itself. This leads me to question
whether the "Mission Gap" was purely the result of differences in airspeed, or
whether there were other factors at work.

Kane, in the AAHS articles, wrote that he witnessed Flavelle's crash, which
in turn caused confusion and separation among some elements of the 376th. Bill
Whitney's research indicated that Flavelle crashed 15-20 minutes after the TW
force began its climb to altitude. The subsequent disruption from the crash
delayed the Corfu turn of the 376th and 93rd. Kane, by his own account,
decided to turn at (or close to) the briefed point, while the 376th & 93rd
continued north up the Med. The two leading groups disappeared to Kane's left. He
spent the flight over the Balkan Mountains peering off to his left, hoping to
sight the 376th and 93rd.

However, Compton and his navigator Wicklund must have re-plotted their route
over the mountains. The map Bill displayed in SLC showed the 376th/93rd
making their Corfu Turn at a point farther north than the 98th/44th/389th. Compton
flew to the left of the briefed route, crossed over at Pirot, and wound up on
the right side of the briefed route by the time he arrived in Romania.
Either Compton's route was shorter or his ground speed increased, because he forged
ahead of Kane. After the 98th reached Pirot, Kane continued looking for
Compton to his left -- even flying up the Danube in that direction, hoping to
locate the 376th and 93rd -- but they were already ahead of him and to his right,
making their way across Romania.

It's difficult to determine whether Compton & Wicklund successfully located
the "first IP" (i.e. Pitesti). Wicklund told Bill Whitney that he remembered
hitting it "on the money." Wicklund added, in an interview with Bob Sternfels,
that he miscalculated and gave Compton the wrong ETA for their turning point
at the final IP (Floresti), with the result that the infamous Wrong Turn was
made at Targoviste. However, Bill heard from 93rd sources that the first IP was
actually missed. As I recall, interviews quote Compton as claiming to have
made the Wrong Turn at both the first and second IP, which clouds the issue
further. It's possible that Compton approached Pitesti along a path that
differed from the briefed route, hence their difficulty in confirming the checkpoints.

The best evidence for establish the routes of the TW groups may lie in the
photo records of the mission. Perhaps an experienced eye -- pilots familiar
with the Balkans? -- can someday examine the photos and documentary footage in
sequence, and trace the flight paths that were taken that day. In addition,
information may surface from Romanian files... interviews with eyewitnesses on
the ground, etc. For example, I notice some mention of the village of Snagov on
the ARR site. Bob Sternfels' friend Cornell Iliescu witnessed the 376th
ships flying over Snagov during the low-level mission. (He remembers seeing
two-digit numbers on the tops of the pink planes' tailfins, which convincingly
identifies them as 376th a/c.) Other sightings from Romanian witnesses will
probably turn up. Alex and the ARR crowd have already done an excellent job at
documenting the locations of the various TW crash sites. Eventually, we should
be able to correlate this data with the sortie reports & photo evidence, and
plot the routes of the individual groups with greater certainty.

By the way, I was told in SLC that Compton considered himself an excellent
navigator, and evidently he took the maps away from his navigator on a mission
prior to Ploesti when he (Compton) felt he could do a better job. Compton told
Bob Sternfels that he had his own set of maps for the Ploesti mission, which
he consulted -- presumably with Gen. Ent -- in the cockpit. (I assume Compton
and Wicklund were given identical sets of charts, but I can't be sure.) To
be fair, Compton did his own navigation on his famed Bendix run, and that
worked out fine. Wicklund was a Captain and had been to Ploesti in '42, so clearly
everybody was giving a lot of thought to the navigation difficulties. But,
as Dale points out, human error has a habit of rearing its ugly head, and in
the end "mistakes were made."

Best regards & Happy Easter,
Al S.