Tidal Wave Footage Photos, 15th AAF and Luftwaffe, 'Black Sunday', 1 August 1943

Jim

Many thanks for posting OLD BALDY , SEMPER FELIX and FERTILE MYRTLE in almost 30 years since I started to follow the TIDALWAVE from all books, films, material and anything left from TW , I haven't seen yet anywhere the photos u've posted .Not even at the 2nd Air Division Archives in VA. .....I welcome you to this forum also on behalf of my friends on here ,and I wana hope you will continue to contribute on here with anything you know or wana discuss about TW....we are all grateful to people like you who're contributing with their resources for the accomplishment of the trip I have started into the past on on that dark sunday of August ,1943

Stay in touch with us and have again our thanks for the special material you have posted .

Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 28, 2005 06:20 am

Victor, you make a very important statament which I would like very much to continue discuss with you because your knowledge of the past is simply enormous and you can help entangle also this mistery about OLD BALDY.

If the A/A battery memorial depicted near Ploesti on that road , is not the 86th Battery of the 7th AA Regiment ...to what unit did they belong and to what event were they related during the TW ? I am asking this question beacuse given your statament , all related comments written by Mr Freeman in his book PLOESTI THROUGH THE LENS are than totally wrong !....I fully share your theory regarding the 88 mm shell penetrating the front of the aircraft making it uncontrollable....do you have any further details about the right unit who brought down the OLD BALDY...eventually photos of the VOINICU gun type maybe even of the crew as you knew their names ?

Thanks in advance

Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 28, 2005 06:29 am

Dan , my Confederate Air Force and my US Tidalwave mates , I am posting hereby the E-Mail I just got from Bob Sternfel SANDMAN pilot regarding to Col.Comptons wrong turn which contradicts Mr Fillis comment ( Mr Filli was a TW pilot too) both spoke with Compton a few years ago.....

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Hi Alex,
Regarding the message about Compton's turn before Ploesti, it's important to realize that my information comes directly from General Compton during many interviews with him a few years ago. When you hear stories that come through various sources never is the information as relievable as actual one on one interviews would be. That's why we were able to call our book "The True Story". My interviews with General Compton were one on one!

I wrote to General Compton in 1997 asking for his help in correcting the various books, articles and videos about how the events occurred during the mission but ending with this," both of us are not getting younger and we know the facts about Ploesti so could you help me to get the truth out before it's too late?" He called the day he received my letter. We talked for about an hour that day and each time I needed answers he was always willing to help.
Now that being said let's address your remarks.

What General K.K. Compton said about the turn is totally reported in my book.However, I want to let you know that Compton was doing the decision making at the last part of the run up to the town of Floesti where he was to turn to the heading of 127 degrees. He had charts with him from the start of the mission, a photo taken just before the mission with General Ent shows papers under his arm. The navigator's interviews claims he made the error in telling Compton a wrong ETA for the town of Floesti. This could be true as the navigator and bombardier were arguing about where the navigator could spread out his maps and this unsettled the navigator. Along with trying to id the small towns along the route plus the confusion in the cramped area in the nose of the plane, it could be the nav. might have given the wrong ETA.

However, to dispel the above, Compton told me over and over that he actually wasn't relying on the nav.'s ETA but was following with his charts. Word has it the charts were made from road maps supplied by Michelin TCo..

General Compton took me through the complete sencerio of the run up to Floesti and he stated that he was doing the navigating with a Capt. Red Thompson flying the plane. I checked with Thompson and he did agree he was flying the plane at the time of the wrong turn. Thompson did not realize they were making an error. When Compton turned he thought he was at the town of Floesti and did NOT realize his error until he saw the spires of the churches ahead of him. The time from the turn to his realization that he made an error was 6 or 7 minutes and by 8 minutes he had turned to General Ent sitting behind him at the radio man's station, informing Ent of his error and suggesting they bomb targets of opportunity. They were very close to Bucharest but did make a turn to the left. Remember also that Compton told me that the formation was in trail> In other words they were not in any tight formation and any degree of turn could be handled by the other planes. He did make a turn that took his group over some lakes and reservoirs. We also have found an eye witness who was in the small village of Snagov and told me personally of the B24s flying over head on that Sunday in August.


The outcome of all the mess about the Ploesti was, Kane received the nation's highest medal..Medal of Honor..........Compton NOTHING! However, Kane remained a Colonel, Compton became a Major General.guess who knew how to work the system?

There is no doubt that many things changed the plan of the Ploesti. Col. Jake Smart had a brilliant idea but it was so detailed that it was beyond the skills of the leaders and pilots to execute. For instant, we were to bomb a "power plant" in the refinery grounds. Good idea but what was lacking was that every B24 had to maintain a perfect heading in order to hit their targets. Smart did not take in consideration that there were many plane ahead of me that created propwash thus as hard a you try holding course it was difficult if you were not being shot at or had smoke clouds to contend with. But when Compton made the wrong turn then ordered everyone to hit anything they wanted, it was just a nightmare for the rest of us.

I didn't mention what Compton told me about making the radio message after he made the turn. He was on interphone setting so could not hear the frantic calls from other planes that he was making an error. He got on the radio only after consulting General End about bombing anything you like. I did not turn the dial to Command until after I dropped the bombs as ordered.

No one can deny Compton was a good pilot but it would seem he would talk over all navigation decisions with his navigator.He did appointed that man as group navigator so had respect for his knowledge but since Compton was so self confident this characteristic came to be Compton's down fall.

You now know more than anyone about the TRUTH of the Ploesti.



See next

BOB STERNFEL

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 28, 2005 07:24 am

Thanks to Joe Gonzales and Mr Cornwell from San Antonio /TX my US friends..I have received this most remarkable photo never posted and seen anywhere sofar of Lt.Hughes Loyd ,Congressional Medal of Honor recepient and commander of the aircraft OLE KICK KAPOO which crashed at BANESTI at Prahova River ....out the crew depicted only Smith and Hoff have survided the ill fated OLE KICK KAPOO

To all new members who may join this topic...Joe had a relative flying on the JOSE CARIOCA of Lt Stampolis which impacted the women jail .

Alex

JOE ..MANY THANKS !!!!!

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 28, 2005 06:57 am

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Lt Hughes CHM recepient , Commander of the OLE KICK KAPOO ( not EAGGER EAGLE ) native of Texas

Al

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 28, 2005 07:07 am

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Here is the photo of Lt Roy.C.Harms commanding pilot of of the HELLS ANGELS of the 93rd Heavy Bombardment Group lost near Ploesti as well with its crew before TW ( a real rare photo never seen before)

Out of the crew of 10 men only S/Sgt Jack Reed survided the deadly crash and ended up in POW detention in Roumania

Photo obtained from Mr LeRoy Paulin, of Grafton, Wisconsin through David Cornell Hurd of Texas

Roy Harms was Mr. Paulin's Scout Leader.Roy was an avid horseman.


Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 28, 2005 11:39 am

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It was the 86th AAA Battery of the 7th AAA Regiment. I didn't say it wasn't. I doubted that the men in the photo you posted were from that unit, because the gun they operated was a 37 mm, not an 88 mm. Voinicul was I believe the code name of that gun emplacement or just a nickname.

It could be useful to see if that cross still exists today there. Maybe Dan and Cip will photograph it in their next trip to Ploiesti.

Hello all here's is again something crucial of that mission as seen by Bob Sternfels pilot of the SANDMAN who wrote me the statament bellow :


Hi Alex,

Sorry about the first two Es and the spelling but some how I corrected the grammar and spelling but it did not go through. I'll pick up the story after mentioning that Compton pulled the Emergency Bomb Release Handle.

The ER Handle was designed to release the bombs in an "inert" condition and quickly. So if the pilot had an engine failure on take off he could pull the handle and lighten his load even though he was over friendly territory. The bombs would not arm themselves so no explosions. However there is a procedure that one must follow. First pull the handle only half way. This allows the bomb bay doors to roll up the sides of the B24. Second after the doors are open, pull the handle all the way up. the bombs will now drop. BUT is the pilot pulls the handle all the way up the first time, as Compton did, the bombs will drop through the unopened doors. They don't come off but are removed from their tracks. We have a picture of Compton's plane after returning from Ploesti that shows the bomb bay doors off their tracks.

So we must conclude that Compton pulled the handle all the way up dropping the bombs on marshalling yards( train tracks & trains) but they never exploded. You could say this: Compton flew almost 3000 miles, turned at the wrong town and created a trail of severe problems that cost many lives, dropped inert bombs on trains, not on a refinery, and worst of all tried to get General Ent to start Court Marshall proceedings against Col. Killer Kane. In my book you will read these facts. Compton told me he wanted General Ent to CM Kane because he did not keep up with Compton. Good thing he didn't as do you think Kane would have followed Compton on the wrong turn? Running out of room

see next
Bob

Oh OK Victor I see now......yes it would be a great idea if they can take a trip overthere...though I guess Roumania is under heavy snow too now ?

Alex

Below you have more pictures. On the right we can see the ex. Astra refineries ( courtesy Dan Melinte )

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on January 28, 2005 09:30 am

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The cross was raised on 24 october 1945 in the place where the B-24 Old Baldy crashed on AA 88mm gun position nicknamed "The Mighty". The 86 AA baterry leader was Cpt.Istrate Corneliu. ( courtesy Dan Melinte)

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on January 28, 2005 07:53 am

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Dan

Victor comments were not related to the above photo but were reffering to an other photo posted by me ,depicting a A/A Battery displaced for training purposes somewhere in Roumania , ...which we questioned on whether being the 86th or 87th Baterry of the 7th A/A Regiment......I think Victor knows you travelled to that site and shot this photo a few days ago as a mirror to the one which just appeared black/white on the book PLOESTI RAID THROUGH THE LENS of Freeman and which I scanned and posted last week.

Al

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 28, 2005 08:09 am

Post removed by editor.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on January 28, 2005 09:30 am

The six 88 AA guns of 86 Battery were placed near the road ( Ploesti to Buzau) from Ghighiu village to Berceni village. "Voinicul" was placed at the exit of Corlatesti village.

Below Ghighiu Monastery. ( courtesy Dan Melinte )

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on January 28, 2005 09:15 am

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And Corlatesti village. ( courtesy Dan Melinte)


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