What fighter plane do you think Romania should use?

About russian planes... I found something impressive:
"Thales has a long-standing relationship with Sukhoi in the military field, as integrator of retrofit equipment on SU-30 fighters for various customers. Thales was recently awarded a new contract by the Malaysian Air Force to equip a new fleet of Sukhoi SU-3 MKM with the full Cockpit Display System and the last generation Head-Up Display. This contract is being carried out in partnership between Sukhoi and Thales."

Source - Thales

Iama

Ok here is my first reply on this forums.
What is our country actual possition. We are a NATO country. Which means that most of the military technology will comme from US.
i don't consider Grippen good of anything except the defense of Sweden , a neutral country.
Anyway buying a plane is not like buing a car. When you buy a plane you buy:
-maintenace technology
-maintenance knowhow and training
-weapons systems and weapons training
-starategies to planes.
-spare parts

So would you like to buy all this from a country that was never in a conflict, or from a country that have conflict experience?
Weapon integration. Asuming that US (which is still the big ruller in NATO) develop a new weapons that will became a standard in NATO. How it will be that integrated into a weapon system that is not US made. What are the costs to do that.
Imagine a situation when we will allow to use weapons that Sweden is not allow to (due to neutrality) ? what will happend then?

The F16 will soldier for more years that you think. Block 60 are complectly new planes. Lots of capabilities.

Why we need to compare with Ukraine's so called hundreds of Mig29? Hundreds of Mig 29 grounded due to bad supply chaing from Russia, with acute lack of money for Training and fuel. Not to mention that those Mig29 are plain old planes. No upgrades where ever made to them.

The curently best plane that we have is Lancer C. Not Lancer A. Lancer A EL 2001 radar is just a dumb rangefinding. The Elta 2032 is a different story.

I would go for F18E if we are allowed to buy that ...

Please give some details about that. If you know much about Lancer's radar share with us... "dumb"? I have a bad english.. But, from what i know, is not an apreciative word. Why "dumb"?

Iama

Well Elta2001 is just a simple rangefinder ... there is no GMT,TWS,DBS etc. Nothing except the Range.
It will just give you the range to the first target aquired.
Just look for the EL/M 2001 on google.

http://www.lamilitary.com/Equipment_IAI_ELM2001B.html

This post has been edited by tomcat1974 on December 20, 2004 11:58 am

Well good point. But my problem is that the U.S. air doctrine can not acomodate us. What can we do with a tehnology which is mainly suited for a long range kill.

Who said that? US are all around developed.
Give me one example of technology for long range kill.

From what i know we do not poses bvr missile, yet, for a long range kill.

Iama

PS- Aaaaa, yes, we can use log range detection to see the enemy plane who lanced the rocket who came to us from long range.

I found the right plane to serve in Romanian Air Force. With that, nobody can bet us... We can obtain air dominance for our Alliance.
Maybe some of you dont see it yet - it is a picture published on web by a spy who escaped from Romania...

Iama

Attached Image

A Raptor crashed. But, with my bad english... maybe is better for you to read the article (Source: US Air Force Dec. 22 2004):

"
WASHINGTON --- Commanders of units flying the F/A-22 Raptor called for a safety stand down of the fleet following a crash Dec. 20 at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.

The pilot ejected safely and suffered no serious injuries.

The aircraft, assigned to the 422nd Test and Evaluation Squadron at Nellis, crashed on takeoff and exploded. Officials said an interim safety board will investigate the accident, but it may take months before an official determination can be made as to the cause.

Maj. Gen. Stephen M. Goldfein, commander of the Air Warfare Center at Nellis, stood down the remaining seven F/A-22s at the base immediately following the crash pending a complete inspection. That inspection could take hours or days to complete, depending upon findings.

“The purpose (of the inspections) is to prevent anything like this from happening again,” the general said.

Commanders at Tyndall AFB, Fla., and Edwards AFB, Calif., have also suspended F/A-22s from flying during a precautionary safety stand down.

“It’s doubtful (the Raptors) will be grounded for the entire length of the investigation,” said Air Force spokesman Doug Karas. “The Air Force will investigate the accident and apply what it learns to improve flight safety of the F/A-22,” Mr. Karas said. “There should not be a long-term impact to the F/A-22 program.”

The Raptor is a priority transformational program and has logged more than 7,000 flight hours. Air Force officials said they plan to purchase about 277 of the aircraft from Lockheed Martin Corp.

“I have full confidence in the investigation process and await the results of the accident and safety investigations,” said Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. John P. Jumper. “Both investigations are important to determine the cause and prevent future mishaps.”

Iama

F-22s are waaaaaaaay out of our league, but , for those who think that only MiG-21s crash, this just goes to show that accidents happen even in the best airforce in the world.

And, like we esxpected, Raptors are grounded:

"Crash Leads to Investigation, Raptor Safety Stand Down

WASHINGTON --- Commanders of units flying the F/A-22 Raptor called for a safety stand down of the fleet following a crash Dec. 20 at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.

The pilot ejected safely and suffered no serious injuries.

The aircraft, assigned to the 422nd Test and Evaluation Squadron at Nellis, crashed on takeoff and exploded. Officials said an interim safety board will investigate the accident, but it may take months before an official determination can be made as to the cause.

Maj. Gen. Stephen M. Goldfein, commander of the Air Warfare Center at Nellis, stood down the remaining seven F/A-22s at the base immediately following the crash pending a complete inspection. That inspection could take hours or days to complete, depending upon findings.

“The purpose (of the inspections) is to prevent anything like this from happening again,” the general said.

Commanders at Tyndall AFB, Fla., and Edwards AFB, Calif., have also suspended F/A-22s from flying during a precautionary safety stand down.

“It’s doubtful (the Raptors) will be grounded for the entire length of the investigation,” said Air Force spokesman Doug Karas. “The Air Force will investigate the accident and apply what it learns to improve flight safety of the F/A-22,” Mr. Karas said. “There should not be a long-term impact to the F/A-22 program.”

The Raptor is a priority transformational program and has logged more than 7,000 flight hours. Air Force officials said they plan to purchase about 277 of the aircraft from Lockheed Martin Corp.

“I have full confidence in the investigation process and await the results of the accident and safety investigations,” said Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. John P. Jumper. “Both investigations are important to determine the cause and prevent future mishaps.” "

US Air Force

Iama

P.S. - The other modern occidental fighters did crash? Typhoon, Rafale, Grippen...

I hope nobody is for my posts with F-22 subject... Anyway, after up writed events, what may come? A contract! Sure, this crash don't "crash" the F-22 program.

"Pentagon Contract Announcement



Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $608,300,000 contract modification.

This modification increases the funding/termination liability values for the month of January 2005 through May 2005 for Lot 5 Production Long Lead Activities and Training System Support as a Capability. This effort supports F/A-22 Aircraft.

The location of performance is Lockheed Martin Corp., Marietta, Ga. At this time, $173,100,000 of the funds has been obligated. This work will be complete by December 2007. Solicitation began July 2004 and negotiations were completed May 2005.

The Headquarters Aeronautical Systems Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8611-04-C-2851). "

Source: US Department of Defense, Dec. 28, 2004

Iama

Even if Romania could afford the F-22 Raptor, I still would not want it, I think F-22 is the most over-rated, over-complex and over-priced fighter ever built. There are far better aircraft out there for much cheeper prices such as the SAAB JAS-39 Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, Su-35&37 Flankers and IAI Lavi. In my opinion Romania's best choice would the JAS-39 Gripen

In that list ... 2 entries are not even in production , and one is dead and buried.
Su35/37 was a serie of prototypes that noone wanted to have. Lavi is dead as it could be.

In that list ... 2 entries are not even in production , and one is dead and buried.
Su35/37 was a serie of prototypes that noone wanted to have. Lavi is dead as it could be.

Tomcat1974
I respectfully disagree with you, the Su-35 Flanker has been ordered by Brazil and Russia itself. To date Brazil has order at least 12, with at least 12 more to follow; and Russia has ordered 18, which will be followed by a second batch of 18 Su-35's. I'am sure that other nations such as India, China, Vietnam, Indonesia and Syria which have expressed strong interest in buying the Su-35 and already have the Su-27&30 Flanker in service, will eventually purchase their own Su-35 fleets. The Su-35 has been delayed by lack of funds not a lack of interest or potential customers.When the Su-35 enters service with the Brazilian Air Force, "Brazil" will have the single most potent fighter type in the Americas.
The Su-37A Burkut is still being developed, but once it has been fully developed it will attract customers. Then the Su-37A will be perhaps the best fighter in the world!!!...Far superior to F-22 Raptor.
As for the IAI Lavi, perhaps you have not heard of the Chinese Chengdu J-10. It was developed form the Lavi and will enter with Chinese AF soon. Given Romania's relationship with IAI I'am sure Isreal would be happy sell Romania the Lavi as well.

Thank you

This post has been edited by Stephen Dabapuscu on January 06, 2005 05:33 am