What fighter plane do you think Romania should use?

I think Romania needs a nice little light attack aircraft, like the IAR trainer, and an intercepter, like the F16, or Gripen or whatever. Chances are, that is all they are going to need in the immediate future.

Romanian aviation business is actually a bright spot, imo. Several Romanian produced light aircraft are quite popular in the US and around the world.

Romania will likely use the planes in Combat condition like NATO member (Like France, UK, Italy, Danemark, Holland etc.) For that we will need Ownership of the planes, we will need the self support for them, we will need weapons (lets face it the current thread in weapons come from the Big Firefly - US, you will see not Latest 120's integrated into Gripen , not to mention JDAM weapons, etc - BTW Gripen is Limited to what Sweds have in inventories, the rest is pay for integration).

Since when do you care what US is doing with the money they get selling stuffs around the world? Nobody stops Romania to do the same kind of deal. See a problem here?
Saying that somebody don't have an argument in buying F16 won't make your argument to buy JAS stand. The Gripen (one P , like in "Phew") is not known to successfully deliver an American ordnance against an enemy target. What are you saying here is that people should not buy Mercedes anymore because they are old. Maybe they (Lockheed) should change the name of F16 in something like F161,and then everybody will be happy.
But let's go further. Attacking China? Not even US dares. If not stupid, then at least childish, your assumption is flawed. No matter what, Romania do not have interests in what makes China today. And even if we would, we will be wiped out from the face of earth with or without 438 F22 squadrons by those guys. Please, come with something that stands at least a smile in a serious debate.
Let's go to the Mig29. Do you know how these Migs ended in Romania,don't you? They were not ordered but merely delivered to pay debts. That explain 3rd world avionics that were aboard. Even Moldova had a better equipped Mig29 fleet than us. Our workhorse was then (as it is now) the Mig21 (accompanied quite successfully by what remained from our Floggers).
So why would Romania lease equipment worth 62 mil/piece instead of buying? You do know that if our pilots fly on second more than what is specified in the lease contract the deal is off. No more maintenance (at advertised price) and extra pay.
F16 is not expensive, stop spreading this lie already. Heck! Not even Rafale is expensive if MApN know how to negociate. At Typhoon we will glance over 10 years when the one and only Gripen version will have flight resource exhausted. And then question would be: why not splinter new Typhoon? Harrier gets withdrawn all over the world (JSF will put an end to this) and I don't see why that would be an option. Do you know how much it costs maintenance for such a plane? Do you know that engines have to be checked EVERY sortie because of the fact that a Harrier can hover only tens of seconds (time in which "drinks" TWO TONS of water for cooling)?
So pardon my French, Gripen is the stupidest choice that must be made. And considering leasing that aircraft for the price of one stadium is even more insane. Gripen is not newer than F16, stop spreading another lie. F16 is built TODAY, with the technology of tomorrow, something Gripen engineers can only dream. You can't beat years of actual combat, all this experience gained put back into a machine to make it only better. The only thing I don't like at F16 is the fact that it has one engine. But competing with Gripen? Lockheed has only to send a photo and combat record to any showdown. That says loads. And it is not bullshit as SAAB advertise in their TV spots or promo material.Heck! Even a F-4 will beat any contest with Gripen in what it can offer for the same price.
And, in the end , decision will be political (read who's putting the most under table). At this time, knowing our politicians, it's no rocket science to see who's holding the cards.Hint: bribery(aka commissions) is not allowed in the financial ledger in US,in many EU countries that can be called "protocol funds".But we will see.

What an ignorant lying bastard I am! Thanks for pointing that out Zayets. You must know me better than I do!

I am yet to learn what you base your statements on.

The comments on China made me laugh though. So much trouble to answer a rhetorical question...

Anyhow, I thought this was a good place to rationally discuss RoAF issues as I have an interest in this area. Obviously I was mistaken.

This post has been edited by redcooper on March 05, 2007 02:26 pm

Check the post. I put my arguments in. Where are yours???
Just a reminder : combat records, experience , Poland etc. These are arguments. Your argument is : let's giv'em a chance. Well guess what? We don't have money for that.

So, you wanted arguments? I suppose you meant cold numbers. Well, let me satisfy your curiosity. Take it easy though, you will be surprised to find out that even Rafale might be an option for Romania. Not to mention F18. So, enjoy. BTW, cost for F-16 is taken from here.
So, please let me hear your arguments. You really made me curious. BTW, I did not made you a liar (well,maybe not intentionally). Spreading a lie won't necessary make you a liar.Does it?
PS: also note the that unit costs for Gripen is not a very well known figure simply because
the manufacturers don't have a clear idea. They leased some 30 planes so far and sold few to SAAF but the results are still pending. That's just a rough estimate. They may run into problems (and that's the case with EADS lately) having to lay off people etc. You just never know. That's one more reason to check twice and cut once.
PPS: the document was free to download at the site mentioned on pages.Pay attention to the fact that the reports are held only 14 days. If anyone interested, I have saved a copy.Obviously, you will have to subscribe in order to download.









This post has been edited by Zayets on March 05, 2007 03:22 pm

Please discuss the idea, not the man behind it. There is no need to get personal over this. Thank you.

I want to say another thing. Nobody stops, Lockheed Martin for example, to sell F16 for 10 USD/piece. If that arranges them, then they will do it in a blink! Also, don't forget that there are A LOT of countries using F16 & F18. Should a problem arise in procurement/maintenance/parts you don't have only one option. This kind of issues must be reviewed when purchasing such expensive toys.

Typhoon take more chances?
On another romanian forum i read some pro-Typhoon posts. I read about something at tv Antena 1 little movies from a flight.
So, is it the Typhoon our favorite?

Iama

The Eurofighter movies were from last week, when one such aircraft was present at the Baneasa military show and it performed aerobatics every day at noon. I watched during lunch break, because its performance was easily visible from the Northern area of the city (not too mention the engine roar was powerful enough to draw anyones curiosity).

So, that was a Typhoon??? My last week included some action in N. area of Bucharest and i heard some discutions: "some Mig's had some action low on the sky".

Anyway... how about Typhoon for RoAF?

Iama

That would be excelent... if we could have the money... I think we should look at the examples around us. gripen.

... you mean at bribes Gripen offered? is a on going scandal for Czech Republic.

It's not like the Eurofighter contract in Austria is perfectly clean, not to mention Saudi Arabia.

Whatever will be chosen, there will be bribes - it happens everywhere around the globe in large arms purchase - except when one develops and buys a domestic product.

As for the poll on top, I chose not to vote. Including the Su-27, MiG-29 and a new IAR is completely unrealistic, while the Typhoon and Rafale were left out.

This post has been edited by Zapacitu on May 06, 2007 03:12 pm

one thing i did not get from the hole sniper deal...
why upgrade the mig 21 and let the 29 tu rust?
poland bought 48 f-16 but also mig-29 from germany ans czeh republic...
those moldovan mig 29c could have ended up here insteed of US