What fighter plane do you think Romania should use?

Radu, you're a funny man!
But, even if you did not understand what I was talking about, I explain it now for you!
I am a passionate of the weapons of the World War II and the Cold War and I want to build an outdoor museum. If about old Soviet weapons the procurement was easy, our army barracks was until several years ago full of such junk, I missed old NATO-type jalopy. But in these last years I get lucky: our army received old american junk -first the Hawk missile systems, now the F-16 aircraft, and other weapons like that soon will follow... (maybe the M-48 Patton in the future?) Now you get it, why I am so happy! You do not enjoy it, too?

the recession is a an excuse, nothing more. we've had a recession since late 2008. until then all newspapers were full of stuff like "8% growth". yet they didn't decide on anything.

UAE recently bought 80 Block 60 F-16s for 6.4 bln $ including associated costs. That means 1.9 billion $ for 24 Block 60 jets, including associated costs. And we pay 1.3 billion $ allegedly in associated costs alone for 24 second-hand Block 25 jets! Something does not add up at all and this is not a free gift.

Where did you get these figures?
The planes are free. Every true report of this deal says that Romania may need to spend "up to $900 million" to train their pilots ($400 million) and upgrading the infrastructure.
I am not one of those people who has to be "concerned" about everything, I do not see conspiracy at every corner.
Look around you. Romania cannot afford the billions that you so generously wish to throw around only so that Romanians can indulge some adolsecentine desire to impress "dujmanii" with their "valuare".
Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on March 31, 2010 07:59 am

Radu, you're a funny man!
But, even if you did not understand what I was talking about, I explain it now for you!
I am a passionate of the weapons of the World War II and the Cold War and I want to build an outdoor museum. If about old Soviet weapons the procurement was easy, our army barracks was until several years ago full of such junk, I missed old NATO-type jalopy. But in these last years I get lucky: our army received old american junk -first the Hawk missile systems, now the F-16 aircraft, and other weapons like that soon will follow... (maybe the M-48 Patton in the future?) Now you get it, why I am so happy! You do not enjoy it, too?

I fail to see the relevance. You are not the first cynical Romanian who thinks that everyone else is stupid or incompetent. In fact, every Romanian I know is an expert in everything.
Here is my advice: join the Air Force. Change the system from within.
Radu

With 24 fighters it will be not so easy... We already have pilots for 48 fighters. No need for new ones...

On the other hand, maybe it would have been better for our governants to explain in detail the costs. So much for training, so much for new radars etc. Maybe then the disscussion will stop.

Are you kidding?
We are in Romania and the discussion will never stop! What's more, I don't really think that either a politician or a technician from the Army will truly tell these details! Maybe many years from now, more than it were needed for the frigate scandal to "fizz".

Radu, any opinion based on a phrase or two is wrong. You don't know me at all, so you can't draw any pertinent conclusions. So, returning to the matter I hope the 24 planes will be upgraded and will eventually fly (not stand decommissioned and participating only on parades as the Hawk missiles!). I only answered to an inappropriate attitude who I think you had.

Thank you, I already have a job and actually love what I do! (BTW I work in the legal field)
But you're right, the system need a change! A major change! And I think each of us is obliged to contribute to this change! Including me and you!

Where did you think my attitude was inappropriate?
You tried to steer the discussion off-topic with "hawk missiles", "junk" etc and I did not "bite". Problem?
One man's "junk" is another man's "treasure".
Radu

Taking the risk of saying something you already understand, even if you say you didn't, mentioning the Hawk missile in this context is not off-topic at all, it is considering that arms delivery in conection with this F-16 arms delivery! Nobody serious and interested in that problem can isolate this deal from the other made before by romanian authorities (even if I hope this deal will have a better future!). This is what I was talking about, it was nothing personal, nor off-topic, Radu!

Taking the risk of saying something you already understand, even if you say you didn't, mentioning the Hawk missile in this context is not off-topic at all, it is considering that arms delivery in conection with this F-16 arms delivery! Nobody serious and interested in that problem can isolate this deal from the other made before by romanian authorities (even if I hope this deal will have a better future!). This is what I was talking about, it was nothing personal, nor off-topic, Radu!

This just makes no sense.
Radu

With the well-known risk of arguing with you : YES, IT DOES MAKE SENSE! It's not the first time we buy SH stuff we don't really know how to use (thus we don't use it!), be it frigates, AA missiles or many other examples. Just because you are a fan of F16's (not F 14 or F 111, as I was kidding before) doesn't mean that everyone has to share your oppinion - or they're idiots!
PS: Happy Easter!

I am a fan of aviation in general, if you paid attention would would know that. I do not particularly love the F-16 just like I do not have any problem with the Eurofighter or the Gripen. Romania just cannot afford these expensive jets. I actually like the Eurofighter a lot. I saw them in the air on many occasions and they are really something to behold. But even if I declared my undying love for them, Romania would still remain too poor to afford them.

I am not making anyone an idiot. I am only pointing out when some make idiots of themselves.

What you are saying is that Romanians are unable to make the most of what they have. I agree. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make the horse drink.

If, as you claim, things are simply left to rot away in Romania, I would rather see a free F16 rot away on the edge of some airfield than see an expensive Eurofighter rot away at the edge of an airfield. Why argue for an expensive fighter then? Do you think that Romanians will suddenly start to appreciate what they got? Well, if that is the case, let them start with the F16.

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on April 02, 2010 06:31 pm

Actually, you can - with the risk of drowning him
Perhaps this is the treatment we ought to try, but we don't have anyone interested enough to do it instead of ourselves
Anyway, about the "free" F-16's, Murphy had a saying "There is no free lunch"; I guess it fits!

I've seen this before on this site. Some opinions seem to matter more than others.

Maybe I should stop paying attention to this site...

Radub, could you try answer some of my questions - you seem to be one of these experts you mentioned