WWII Romanian Jet fighters, Fictional war end 3D model

Four-engine Soviet bombers...?!?

Pe-8

I wonder if the jet engine invented by Henri Coanda in 1910, with the body and weapons of 1939-1941 could have been competitive in WWII.

Oh boy!
Coanda did not "invent" the jet. He was not even the first to come up with the idea of a turbine, or even a gas propelled turbine. Steam powered turbines existed for at least 16 years by then. (Google Turbinia) What Coanda tested (with Campini's help, a fact that is conveniently "forgotten" or "ignored" by the Romanians) was a ducted fan with afterburner - let us not forget that he used a 4-cylinder engine to provide the rotation force that turned the ducted fan. On a real jet, the rotation is provided by a turbine turned by a jet of hot gases. Coanda figured out that he was on to a loser and gave it up to work on a range of very successful projects. Campini kept trying and only about 20 years later he managed to complete the engine, which turned out to be a failure. Google Campini.

Coanda failed. No jet was successful until late 30s. The first patent for a jet engine was granted to Von Ohain in 1936.

I said it before, had Coanda invented the "jet engine" in 1910, World War 1 would have been fought by jet fighters.

Coanda has a plethora of other real achievements on his panoply for which he deserves a lot of praise and recognotion.

The Coanda Effect is much much much more significant for the aviation (and not only) industry than his failed attempt to create a "ducted fan with afterburner" engine.

Radu

Thanks for your answer. It seems that I should look to Coanda's work from another perspective. But, you know, the Romanian books almost invariably say the same thing and nothing else (maybe in the 2000s things changed).

Oh boy!
Coanda did not "invent" the jet. He was not even the first to come up with the idea of a turbine, or even a gas propelled turbine. Steam powered turbines existed for at least 16 years by then. (Google Turbinia) What Coanda tested (with Campini's help, a fact that is conveniently "forgotten" or "ignored" by the Romanians) was a ducted fan with afterburner - let us not forget that he used a 4-cylinder engine to provide the rotation force that turned the ducted fan. On a real jet, the rotation is provided by a turbine turned by a jet of hot gases. Coanda figured out that he was on to a loser and gave it up to work on a range of very successful projects. Campini kept trying and only about 20 years later he managed to complete the engine, which turned out to be a failure. Google Campini.

Coanda failed. No jet was successful until late 30s. The first patent for a jet engine was granted to Von Ohain in 1936.

I said it before, had Coanda invented the "jet engine" in 1910, World War 1 would have been fought by jet fighters.

Coanda has a plethora of other real achievements on his panoply for which he deserves a lot of praise and recognotion.

The Coanda Effect is much much much more significant for the aviation (and not only) industry than his failed attempt to create a "ducted fan with afterburner" engine.

Radu

Sorry ? Campini helped Coanda with the "turbine"?! I did a quick google on "Campini" as you suggested , and if its the same guy who you are talking about ( Secondo Campini?), well he was born in 1904!

Can i ask what is your source for the above post ? Would be interesting to know ...

Apologies for the confusion. I meant Caproni. Caproni was a close friend of Coanda's (Coanda was even his best man at his wedding). It was a "slip" of the keyboard, it happens. Caproni worked closely with Coanda on a number of designs.

Nevertheless (you may be relieved to know) the connection betweeen Campini and Coanda via Caproni still remains. Caproni Campini N1 was a "propellerless" plane finally flown in 1940. This was based on an idea similar to Coanda's, i.e. a ducted fan powered by an in-line engine. It clearly demonstrated that such an engine was quite weak and nothing too exciting (apart from not actually being a "jet engine" as such).
But, you probably came across that already when you googled the name Campini.

Trust me, I know a thing or two about Coanda. Not so long ago I was involved in a large project relating to him.

HTH
Radu

Hi guys, I just happened upon this topic through Google. I created these images of the Me P.1070 (AKA "Me 260") many years ago for a book with what-if Luftwaffe stories by John Baxter.

Indeed the Soviet bombers are Pe-8s. The formation is semi-random, I put no real thought into it other for it to look interesting. From what I've read about Soviet formation flying during WW2, this might actually not be too far from the truth My inspiration came from formations of B-17s, so that's probably why it looks a bit like American box formations perhaps, but this is not intentional.

Here's the current webpage dedicated to these images:
http://digitalaviationart.com/skyraider3d/mep1070_1.htm

One of the images is available as print, by the way:
http://www.digitalaviationart.com/zazzle/hypothetical.php

^^ Holy cow... those are wonderful...

Are those fighters licence produced at IAR Brasov?

No, actually they were used and refurbished planes sold to Romania in 1953. Few of them saw combat action during the modest Romanian contribution into the war between Germany and Japan, in 1960. Unfortunately, after their assigned airport in Thailand was bombed, only one plane was able to perform the return flight to Romania.

This post has been edited by Florin on October 07, 2010 04:46 am

Are those fighters licence produced at IAR Brasov?

No, actually they were used and refurbished planes sold to Romania in 1953. Few of them saw combat action during the modest Romanian contribution into the war between Germany and Japan, in 1960. Unfortunately, after their assigned airport in Thailand was bombed, only one plane was able to perform the return flight to Romania.

I beg your pardon...?

I didn't know Romania participated so activ in that war.
I heard only about logistics and staff.

Did you read the science fiction novel "The Man in the High Castle" / "Omul din castelul inalt" ? It was also translated in Romanian, by Nemira.
In the novel Germany and Japan, the winners of World War II, were not in war, but watching each over with a dose of mistrust and reciprocal despise. In that action, there was a rift in the leadership of Nazi Party. One faction wanted a surprise thermonuclear attack against Japan, the other wanted the maintaining of the status quo. Meanwhile the German astronauts were pinning the swastika on Moon and Mars - huge expenses just for propaganda reasons.

This post has been edited by Florin on October 07, 2010 05:51 pm

Did you read the science fiction novel "The Man in the High Castle" / "Omul din castelul inalt" ? It was also translated in Romanian, by Nemira.
Meanwhile the German astronauts were pinning the swastika on Moon and Mars - huge expenses just for propaganda reasons.

On Mars? Didn't they get to put a man (or an "uber"-man, that is ) on the Sun, too? At night, of course, in order not to melt...

This post has been edited by Agarici on October 07, 2010 08:46 pm

Did you read the science fiction novel "The Man in the High Castle" / "Omul din castelul inalt" ? It was also translated in Romanian, by Nemira.
Meanwhile the German astronauts were pinning the swastika on Moon and Mars - huge expenses just for propaganda reasons.

On Mars? Didn't they get to put a man (or an "uber"-man, that is ) on the Sun, too? At night, of course, in order not to melt...

I am assuming you know that the same team of German scientists who designed the V-2 designed also the Saturn rocket who propelled the Apollo missions to Moon, and the rockets who sent unmanned equipment to Mars in the 1970's.
In the days of the Apollo missions, the chief of the medical research of NASA was a German doctor. Later the medals and honorific titles he obtained in America were withdrawn on the reason that he was also a doctor in a Nazi concentration camp.

There were attempts to tarnish the memory of von Braun as well, on the reason that V-2's were built by detainees under the supervision of SS, but eventually it was decided that America owns him too much for the Apollo program.

By the way, "Agarici", it was technically possible to send a man to Mars since the 1970's - it was just too expensive to do it. If Soviet Union and the U.S. wouldn't waste money for nukes, tanks, aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, we would have astronauts on Mars decades ago. But from a realistic point of view, these money could have better usage right here on Earth.