Field Marshall von Paulus's Romanian Wife

[Victor]

QUOTE

Your mother is a Historian?  :shock:   Howcome she knows Paulus's Wife, the none of the Bookworms on this page could tell me who she was..  :?   :evil: ![b][/b]

Maybe you could have done a quick Google search and would have found the answer for yourself.
This was one of the first links:
http://216.198.255.120/divisions/generals/...aphy_paulus.htm
The name was Elena Rossetti Solescu.

[C-2]

Enything about royal families and staff like this I can ask my Mother without "kiling" my eyes in front of the pc. She may not cook too well,but there are no many "holes"in her knowledge about local aristocrasy.(I'm refering to the pre 1947 local aristocrasy).
I'll try the link.

[C-2]

Yes Victor,a concentrated and very complete biografy.
What no one can tell is if he was a real Von!
I'm asking because Ribentrop wasn't ,also I belive Webber(the composer) also "got" the title later.

[Dénes]

QUOTE

Enything about royal families and staff like this I can ask my Mother

Can she shed light to the question if fighter ace Nicolae Polizu had 'Micsunesti' also included in his full family name?
I found both versions, but Micsunesti is mentioned only rarely.

Dénes

[Geto-Dacul]

Victor wrote :

QUOTE

Actually there were members of the Rosseti family that were very patriotic and loved their country. Just because they were not initially of Romanian blood (btw, neither were the first voivodes and domni  ), does not mean they could not have become more Romanian than many others \"escus\".

Many of those phanariots were finally "romanized" and integrated with the local aristocracy, forming the modern one that we knew during the inter-war period, and who was oftenly implicated in nasty bussiness (see the 20's and 30's corruption). If we are forced sometimes in a compromise with strangers, that does not mean that we must open the door at everyone... If we are what we are today and nothing else, an unitary culturaly and linguistically nation, that means that our ancestors knew pretty well their role, and preserved the true national character.

Sorry, but I did not catch very well the thing with the first voivodes being of foreign origin... Please explain it... :wink:

QUOTE

Caudiu is of German descent, among others, but I am not sure that from his mother's side.

Who is Claudiu, if I don't bother anyone? :oops: :?

Best regards,

Getu'

[Victor]

QUOTE

Sorry, but I did not catch very well the thing with the first voivodes being of foreign origin... Please explain it... :wink:

The Basarabs were of Cuman origin.

QUOTE

Who is Claudiu?

C-2

[Orok]

Excuse my ignorance gentlemen, but what or who is a phanariot? Is that an English word?

Thanks.

[C-2]

Tha Phanariots were sort of a Clan of Greeks that ruled In parts of today Romania under the protection of the Turks.They weren't so bad but had put a lot of taxes on the people and were not popular at all.
Today to tell about someone that is a phanariot meens that his egoist,totalitarial etc.. :?
Not so easy to explain to a "outsider"
cheers!

[Orok]

I got the gist! Thanks a lot!

[Florin]

QUOTE

Tha Phanariots were sort of a Clan of Greeks that ruled In parts of today Romania under the protection of the Turks.They weren't so bad but had put a lot of taxes on the people and were not popular at all. ........

For Orok:

In those days, Moldavia and Tara Romaneasca ("Tara Romaneasca" means "The Romanian Country") were under Turkish domination. However, this domination was not so close and so tight as that enjoyed by Hungary between 1526 - 1688.

The rulers (the "Phanariots") were Christians, not a Turkish guy as in Hungary in 1526-1688. They had a kind of own army, built with foreign mercenaries, mostly Albanians. The key position were in the hands of local Romanian or Phanariot aristocrats. They had to obey the Turks, however. There were no mosques to worship the Muslim believes, as those built in Hungary between 1526 and 1688.

So, in this condition of half independence - half Turkish province, the Ruler had to pay a lot of money to the Turks. The big problem was that in Constantinopol, the capital of the Turkish Empire, there were always OTHER Greek families lingering for the leadership of the Romanian kingdoms. They promised to the Turkish emperor bigger revenue than that got from the existing rulers :x
So at any moment the existing Phanariot ruler had to offer bigger profits than the promised bid of his hungry competitiors. Also he had to built up his personal fortune very quickly , because he could be dethroned, and even beheaded, at any moment.

From here the taxes which made them so unpopular, taxes mentioned in the C-2's paragraph I quote above.

Florin

[Orok]

Thanks Florin, I found your explanation very informative. So the Phanariots were not really Greek but ethnically pure Romanians. And the part of Romania under Ottoman influnce was not really governed as an imperial province, as was part of Hungary, but rather functioned as a vassal which had to pay huge amount of tribute each year.

Thanks again Florin, great post!

[Dénes]

The phanariots were Greek.
Here's a definition from Webster's 1913 Dictionary:

"Definition: Pha*nar"i*ot, n. Also Phanariote Pha*nar"i*ote
[NGr. ?, fr. Phanar. See {Phanar}.]
One of the Greeks of Constantinople who after the Turkish
conquest became powerful in clerical and other offices under
Turkish patronage."

Dénes

[Victor]

The Phanotiote domni were established officially in 1711 in Moldavia (after the defeat of the Russian-Moldavian forces in the battle of Stanilesti) and in 1715 in Wallachia. I said officially, because some of the Phanariote rulers had been on the Moldavian throne as early as 1707 (Mihail Racovita, like the WWII general) or 1709 (Nicolae Mavrocordat), but with the rebellion attempt of Dimitrie Cantemir the Porte gave up using also local nobility and turned exclusively to the Greeks in Constantinople. Until then the habit of buying the throne was also in place since the 16th century, but the candidates were mainly Romanian/Romanianized nobles, who from time to time rebelled. So, in order to settle things down, the Greeks from the Phanar (neighborhood in Istanbul) were used.

In Wallachia, between 1715 and 1821 (when the reign of the last Phanariotes ended with a revolt) there were 38 reigns, some of the Phanariotes getting the throne 2 or 3 times. In Moldavia there were 35 reigns. Some of them ruled both in Moldavia and in Wallachia.

Generally this period of Romanian history is probably one of the darkest. The few good things some of the Phanariotes done were the release of the serfs in 1746 in Wallachia and in 1749 in Moldavia, both by Constantin Mavrocordat.

Many of the Phanariotes settled in Romania and mixed with the old local noble families and formed the 19th-20th century Romanian aristocracy, which, unlike what Geto-Dacul thinks, gave many good Romanians.

[Florin]

QUOTE

Thanks Florin, I found your explanation very informative.  So the Phanariots were not really Greek but ethnically pure Romanians.  And the part of Romania under Ottoman influnce was not really governed as an imperial province, as was part of Hungary, but rather functioned as a vassal which had to pay huge amount of tribute each year.   Thanks again Florin, great post!

Hi Orok,

I read again my post you quote. I don't see any clue to support you in your statement that I declared the Phanariots "ethnically pure Romanians". I wrote that the aristocracy was local Romanian or Phanariot, but this is not equivalent with: Phanariots = ethnically pure Romanians.
Sorry, this is your conclusion.

I also said the Phanariots were Christians. Like the Romanians. Like the Hungarians. Like the Austrians...

And if we consider the matter for the sake of accuracy, the Phanariots were Orthodox Christians. Like the Romanians. Like the Greeks. Like the Russians. Like the Serbians. Like the Bulgarians. Like the Armenians...

But as C-2 and Victor mentioned (and my text was not in contradiction) the Phanariots were Greeks.

Florin

[PanzerKing]

This is so interesting! I'm used to the old boring western history!

We learn a bit about Europe, but mainly how they paved the way for the U.S. to be born.