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> The Charge of Robanesti
Victor
Posted: January 16, 2011 11:31 am
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QUOTE (21 inf @ January 16, 2011 12:44 pm)
A romanian infantry regiment had in ww1 around 3.200-3.800 men. How much men had a romanian cavalry regiment in ww1?

Around 500
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Agarici
Posted: January 16, 2011 11:47 am
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QUOTE (Victor @ January 16, 2011 08:41 am)
QUOTE (Agarici @ January 16, 2011 01:46 am)
A decent account of it can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prunaru_Charge Even if it is Wikipedia, the sources and the story are OK.

A cavalry regiment did not have 5,000 men.


I agree. According to Istoria militara a poporului roman, vol. 5 (1988), the 1914 Rosiori regiment consisted of 4-6 squadrons (150 men each) and a MG section (2 pieces). Hence, a total manpover of about 600-900 men (peacetime effectives - the numbers in case of mobilization being most certainly higher).

As armament, they had lances and sabers (the German mod. 1906 cavalry sabre, I think), Steyr mod. 1912 9 mm automatic pistols and Mannlicher mod. 1893 6,5 mm "Romanian" carabines, Maxim mod. 1910 6,5 mm "Romanian" MGs and, for support (at cavalry division level), Krupp mod. 1908 75 mm quick-firing "cavalry cannons/guns".

EDIT: so, my estimation would be of 1000+ men per cavalry regiment.

This post has been edited by Agarici on January 16, 2011 11:49 am
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Agarici
Posted: January 16, 2011 11:56 am
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There was also a Romanian cavalry charge at Bazargic, earlyer in the war, during the Bulgarian-German offensive in Cadrilater.

Any details about that?

This post has been edited by Agarici on January 16, 2011 11:56 am
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Victor
Posted: January 16, 2011 12:06 pm
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Apparently there were also more successful charges during 1916. I found a short mention of one carried out on 18 November (don't know if it's old or new style). Slt. Mihai Arion from the 6th Calarasi Regiment received the Mihai Viteazul Order 3rd class for charge against the retreating enemy near the Tarnava Forest. A howitzer battery opened fire on the cavalry squadron. The calarasi attacked the battery, captured it and then used it to fire on the enemy.

I found a Tarnava Forest near Perisor and Radovan, jud. Dolj, on the road from Calafat to Craiova. I am not sure though that was the place mentioned in the decree.
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Victor
Posted: January 16, 2011 12:12 pm
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QUOTE (Agarici @ January 16, 2011 01:56 pm)
There was also a Romanian cavalry charge at Bazargic, earlyer in the war, during the Bulgarian-German offensive in Cadrilater.

Any details about that?

The cavalry was Russian, not Romanian, as far as I know. The Romanian 9th Vanatori and 40th Infantry Regiments were supported on the flank by a Russian lancer regiment. This is the one that made the fateful charge at Bazargic apparently.
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Dénes
Posted: January 16, 2011 01:44 pm
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Although not strictly related to this very topic, here is an excerpt from the book on the Royal Hungarian Army I am currently working on:

The testimony of a German officer who witnessed an attack of the Huszárs serves as an illustration of the Hungarian soldiers’ combat prowess:
“It happened in early August 1941, south of Uman, in the area of Pervomajsk. German troops were pinned down behind a railway embankment by strong Red Army forces. German infantry attacked the enemy four times but were repulsed each time by superior forces. The battalion commander cursed and tried to push his men into a new attack in vain, as the Russians steadily held their positions. It was then, when instead of the artillery barrage we were repeatedly asking for, that a Hungarian cavalry squadron showed up. We were laughing. What do these guys want to do here with their sleek horses, armed only with swords? Suddenly, we were stunned by astonishment. These Hungarians went mad! Squadrons followed the others, coming from our rear. Following a loud command, the Huszárs drew their swords and charged the enemy, virtually glued to their horses, with the swords’ metal blades shining in the sun. They were led by a middle-aged, sword-swinging colonel, with silver rank insignia sparkling on his uniform’s collar. Several light armoured cars covered the flanks. Seydlitz* must have charged in the same fashion, I thought! Forgetting the imminent danger, we stood up and watched the unbelievable scene. It looked like an extraordinary cavalry movie.
The Russians initially fired at their unlikely attackers, but the shots became more sporadic and finally ceased. We watched in astonishment how the Soviet battalion, which thus far fanatically defended its positions, panicked and hastily retreated under the pressure of the charging cavalry. The Hungarians, savouring their success, cut the running soldiers down with their swords. This time, incredibly, ancient weapons and war technique triumphed over modern technology.”

[*FOOTNOTE: Friedrich Wilhelm von Seydlitz, Prussian soldier, one of the greatest cavalry generals of history, active in the Eighteenth Century]

(Excerpt from Erich Kern Der Grosse Rausch, Zürich, Switzerland, 1948, pp 54–55. The Hungarian cavalry unit was most probably the 3rd Huszár Regiment of the 1st Honvéd Cavalry Brigade led by Colonel Pál Pongrácz).

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 16, 2011 02:49 pm
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Agarici
Posted: January 16, 2011 07:14 pm
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QUOTE (Victor @ January 16, 2011 12:12 pm)
QUOTE (Agarici @ January 16, 2011 01:56 pm)
There was also a Romanian cavalry charge at Bazargic, earlyer in the war, during the Bulgarian-German offensive in Cadrilater.

  Any details about that?

The cavalry was Russian, not Romanian, as far as I know. The Romanian 9th Vanatori and 40th Infantry Regiments were supported on the flank by a Russian lancer regiment. This is the one that made the fateful charge at Bazargic apparently.


That is possible.

The only mention that I found in Istoria militara a poporului roman is about a schetch painting (belonging to D. Stoica, and on display, according to the book, at the National Military Museum). Its description reads "Romanian cavalry charge during the fightings at Bazargic", and the uniforms seem to be Romanian too.
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contras
Posted: January 17, 2011 04:15 pm
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At Bazargic the charge was made by Reg 3 Lancers (6 escadrons) from Russian army. They attacked Bulgarian left front, against 1 company (8th Infantery Reg) and one company (48 Infantery Reg) with 2 machine guns. Russian cavalery regiment was almost destroyed, a little part draw back.
It was a usseles charge, it not influenced at all the rest of the battle, in other part of the front 2 Romanian Battalions from Infantery Reg 40 reach 263 cote (northern Bazargic) and 9th Vanatori (Hunters) Reg take station and Gelindzik village.
Battle of Bazargic was a mess, with many errors on both sides (more Romanian errors than Bulgarians), with Russians who reported they are in some positions, and they were at kilometers away.
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Cantacuzino
Posted: January 22, 2011 12:34 am
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A picture taken by germans after Robanesti Parsani charge. A Rosior with his horse lying on the ground after the atack. Note the lance. From the book File din istoria cavaleriei .. authors Emil Gheorghita and George Gheorghiu.
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This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on January 22, 2011 12:34 am
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Cantacuzino
Posted: January 22, 2011 12:55 am
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QUOTE
There was also a Romanian cavalry charge at Bazargic, earlyer in the war, during the Bulgarian-German offensive in Cadrilater.

Any details about that?


Could be the charge from the Tape Burnu hill near Cicracii vilage[ today Sibioara] of Reg 9, Brigada 5 Calarasi comanded by Col Romulus Scarisoreanu on 10 october 1916 [from File din istoria cavaleriei .. authors Emil Gheorghita and George Gheorghiu]
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This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on January 22, 2011 12:55 am
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Agarici
Posted: January 24, 2011 06:40 pm
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QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ January 22, 2011 12:55 am)
QUOTE
There was also a Romanian cavalry charge at Bazargic, earlyer in the war, during the Bulgarian-German offensive in Cadrilater.

Any details about that?


Could be the charge from the Tape Burnu hill near Cicracii vilage[ today Sibioara] of Reg 9, Brigada 5 Calarasi comanded by Col Romulus Scarisoreanu on 10 october 1916 [from File din istoria cavaleriei .. authors Emil Gheorghita and George Gheorghiu]
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Thank you for the feed-back, Cantacuzino!

It could be that episode, or another one which, according to „Istoria militară a poporului român” took place earlier, on September 7. On that day, the same 5th Cavalry/Călăraşi brigade, together with the 17th Infantry brigade counterattacked the Bulgarian troops unsuccessfully trying to retake the town of Bazargic.

Are there any references to that in your book?

This post has been edited by Agarici on January 24, 2011 11:50 pm
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dead-cat
Posted: January 25, 2011 08:18 pm
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referring to " Sarja Regimentului 9 Calarsai de la Cicracii reprezinta [...]un caz unic, in sensul ca o ariegarda in inferioritate numerica sarjeaza o avantgarda superioara din punct de vedere numeric".

is this meant in a ww1 context only? there wern't that many cavalry charges in form of rearguard action in ww1.
the situation is certainly not unique in history though. on May 26 1813, 23 squadrons of allied cavalry charged and routed Maison's 16th division (4 regiments line infantry) at Haynau.

This post has been edited by dead-cat on January 25, 2011 08:19 pm
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21 inf
Posted: January 25, 2011 08:32 pm
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Well, this "unique" story might be not so unique. I found a lot of examples of romanian military historians who wrote about diferent kind of romanian military actions, some of them quite bold, and a lot of this examples were called "unique" or "the first". They were for sure not like this, but the authors failed to consult other deeds or simply tried to make propaganda...A poor and a inapropiate way to wrote anything and especially history....

This post has been edited by 21 inf on January 25, 2011 08:32 pm
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Dénes
Posted: January 26, 2011 06:43 am
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I strongly agree with you on this. I found many instances when the Authors (not only Rumanians), trying to enhance, or overblow a certain event or personality, used this "technique".

As I've repeatedly said, the events speak for themselves, there is no need to add "frills" to them, it only makes the described issue suspicious to the Reader.

Also, the lack of consulting other sources than published in their own language (in this case Rumanian) is a serious setback for many historians, making their view on certain events one sided, thus biased.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 26, 2011 06:49 am
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retro
Posted: February 07, 2011 11:42 am
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About sg. Gheorghe Donici, in the first issue of "Oltenia Eroica"

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