Allies of Germany

[Führerul]

In the European war it was Romania definately, not just militarily but..think of the Oil, the petrol without which German'y Military could not function.
1/3 of Germany's oil came from Romania, vital for it's tanks and planes and ships. It was of very strategic importance, also it's leader Antonescu was a very good ally and maybe friend of Hitler...much more then Horthy of Hungary or Mannerheim of Finnland. Perhaps equal in importance to mussolini, and Hitler regarded the Romanian Soldier as better then the Italian counterpart.

After August 23, there was no more oil for the Reich, and the Germans begun using synthetic fuels which limited engine performance...and finally there was no fuel left and the Luftwaffe was grounded..
So Romania was of very strategic importance, both in military, location, and resources. :idea:

[tempesta]

I voted for Italy. Romania, Finland and Hungary all had signifiant contributions, but only on one front. Italy was the other end of the Axis and could be considered a major power in Europe (although their leaders involved them in war too big for Italy).

[Florin]

[quote]Who was the most important ally of WWII Germany? Militarily speaking, of course.

Please explain your answer[/quote]

Hi Alexandru,

I think Romania. Not because I am Romanian.

Italy's military strength was bigger than that of Romania, of course. Their aerial force and their fleet were also forces to be considered, and both stronger than the Romanian equivalents of Air Force and Navy. Their manufacturing industry and their design ability was stronger than that of Romania, even though a serial production aviation motor stronger than 1000HP was always a big problem, and Italian aviation motors giving 1700HP remained only as prototypes. We shouldn't forget that Caprini-Caproni designed and built in 1943 a turbojet in the same "family" with Me-262, not copied from the Germans.

However... :!:

When you have an ally, it is more important what he can do for you, than what you can do for him (Of course, for the record, is an unconditional love at first site, and you have to wait 50 years to see what stains were on a shiny alliance.)

So, from the beginning, Italy meant for Germany trouble... trouble... trouble.

They did not declare war to France and the UK until it was crystal-clear who is going to win in the West. They lost thousands of soldiers in 3 days of war, against a France already dying and humiliated. But that wouldn't mean too much for our topic. They asked to Germany, in September 1939, many anti-aircraft batteries, coal and some other help. From a Germany who in September 1939 couldn't afford to offer too much.

Then from bad to worse... Mussolini was stupid enough to attack a country whose leader was an open and sincere admirer of Nazism-Fascism: general Metaxas of Greece. A country who could become an Axis ally turned into a stubborn foe. Moreover, the Italians were humiliated and pushed into Albania.
By far worse, the Italians lost Somalia-Eritreea-Abisinia in the summer of 1940. That was not only the first blow for the Axis and the first push for the British morale and pride, chronologically speaking. I always considered the lost of that area more important than usually mentioned. The fate of the Suez channel and the Arabian peninsula was played this way.
Returned to the Balkan Peninsula, like in a nightmare, after seeing the laughable failure of Italy against Greece, the anti-Axis Yugoslavian elements dare to overthrow the pro-Axis Yugoslavian ruling government.
And the British started their landing and advancing into Greece.

And now we start to talk business 8) Remember: in an alliance, it is important what he can do for you, not what you can do for him. :!:

Germany is forced to drain her resources into an unexpected and unwanted campaign, and to delay the invasion of Russia from middle of May to the end of June. If you consider that the Germans were near Moskow when in October the rains transformed the roads into mud rivers, you start to get what Italy did to mess the German effort. Germany was also forced to leave occupation troops in a Greece and Yugoslavia. As I just said, both Yugoslavian and Greek were pro-Axis in early 1940!

Because Marshal Graziani was stupid enough to don't push his successful troops another 70 km in Egypt to reach the end of a railroad, the British gained momentum in the breath break allowed and soon forced Germany to send Rommel and OTHER precious German resources there.
Germany just entered in another mess, transformed from time to time in reasons of joy and pride just because the German officers and soldiers of Afrika Korps were so skilled.
Many people neglect that a lot of Axis supply: people, gasoline and weaponry were lost on the sea even before reaching North Africa, and that was in the very good days of Afrika Korps. Sometime this was a half of supply, and Rommel had to rely on what was captured from the British.

And then, in a turning point of the war, Hitler is sending direct essential military units which may, or may not, stabilize the Russian break-through at Stalingrad, to Africa! Including one the first Tiger units to be used in combat! (Maybe was quite the first, if we don?t consider the prototypes used near Leningrad.)

Germany kept sending troops in North Africa, then in Sicily. Then they had to spread their soldiers to fill the gap in Italy and the Balkan peninsula, in September 1943.
So, comparing with Romania, Italy was a big pain for Germany, FROM THE BEGINNING and ALWAYS.

Japan worth few words... It was by far stronger than Italy. Its brute strength was comparable with that of Germany. But its scientific, design and manufacturing potential lagged far behind. What Japan really did for Germany? Along the whole war, they supplied Germany with few thousand tones of rubber, tin, wolfram and other materials. It was easier when Japan was neutral, it could still be done up to 1943, then it was worse and worse. The last Japanese submarine trying to bring raw materials to Germany was destroyed by an American airplane in July 1944.
And else did Japan for Germany? They offered to Germany a new, mighty, reliable enemy: The United States of America. Thank you very much, Japan!

Now, about Romania involvement. Not spectacular, I agree, but always reliable, and without sucking too much German equipment all time long. And above the skeptical German expectations from the first days of the war with Soviet Union.
Always the German supply of equipment was below needs, so the Romanians managed their tasks with what they had: made in Romania, or made in Czechoslovakia, France and Great Britain before the war.
Usually, they fulfilled the assigned objectives, and some post-war German attempts to blame them for common German-Romanian failures are at least unfair.

There will always on the table the Stalingrad matter. We have a subject under Eastern Front about it. The Romanian generals warned for weeks the German leadership about the Russian build up.
I mentioned in this post that Hitler sent essential supplies to Africa in those crucial days. When von Mainstein started to plan his counter-offensive at Stalingrad, in the first days he had available more Romanians than Germans? equipped as you know.
As Stalingrad was a mixed German-Romanian failure, and the Germans kept the 4th tanks army around the city, instead of sending it against the Soviet bridgeheads, I don't see why many consider only the Romanians responsible of that mess.

Also, the Romanians were much more reliable than the Italians in the winter period, because the stupid Italian leadership sent their soldiers without winter clothing.
The Romanians fought pretty well during the retreat period: 1943-1944. Of course, Romania could never keep the Eastern Front alone, but that was not in the topic. The matter was: who was Germany?s most important ally.

Well, I'll vote for Romania without blinking.

Even though Hungary was very helpful to Germany in a very difficult moment: end of August - beginning of September 1944. Maybe Germany would collapse for good at the Fall/Autumn of 1944, without that.


Florin

[Florin]

Hi,

This is just to vote. I couldn't after my long post.
Florin

[Florin]

QUOTE

Hi, This is just to vote. I couldn't after my long post. Florin

... And I still can't. It's not fair! :evil:

[Florin]

QUOTE

.....IMO, Germany had no Allies. Only satellites.....

An Ally is still an Ally, even when it is much weaker than you. As I mentioned in my long post, it is better a small Ally who doesn't bother you and even helps you a little, instead of strong Allies who mess your long term plans, and put in jeopardy the victory in war.

Florin

[Florin]

QUOTE

The Germans should understand, imo, there was and still is a certain sympathy for them, as a people, in Romania. There is appreciation for their qualities which Romanians view as representative for the whole, generalizing for the better, which is rare. This happening in a country who fought against them in 2 Wwars and was/is usually playing the French card (when Europe is concerned). ..................... If it is to look beyond WW2, Romania is the first eastern country to establish diplomatic relations with West Germany, for example.

Hi,

As you know, since the XIXth century the Romanian intellectuals were always divided in pro-French and pro-German. (As engineer, and as a person who esteem smart technical design and accuracy in execution, and esteem also discipline, required in the manufacturing environment and also in the daily life, I have been pro-German, generally speaking.)

It is interesting to see that in a an important moment of our history both France and Germany supported Romania, but only France remained in the memory of the common folk as the benevolent helper.
I am talking about the international recognition of the union between Moldavia and Tara Romaneasca. ("Tara Romaneasca" means "The Romanian Country" = Muntenia + Oltenia)

Regards,
Florin

[Florin]

QUOTE

....... It is interesting to see that in a an important moment of our history both France and Germany supported Romania, but only France remained in the memory of the common folk as the benevolent helper. I am talking about the international recognition of the union between Moldavia and Tara Romaneasca.

... And even Imperial Russia was on our side in that situation, even though for their own interests.

Florin

[Dénes]

QUOTE

\"Tara Romaneasca\" means \"The Romanian Country\"

In English, the region is known as Wallachia.

Dénes

[zarull]

Italy was the most important ally of Germany in WWII!

[Reazzurro90]

QUOTE

I'd say Romania first, then Finalnd and Hungary. Germany couldn't rely on Italy to do accomplish anything. I think Romania and Finland did the most, and Hungary too.

I disagree, you haven't really seen what the Italian Armed Forces have donr in World War II. Please check comandosupremo.com

[Chandernagore]

QUOTE

And then, in a turning point of the war, Hitler is sending direct essential military units which may, or may not, stabilize the Russian break-through at Stalingrad, to Africa!

Germany hardly had more than 2 divisions equivalent at any time in north Africa. A drop of water compared to what was engaged in Russia. What few replacements were send to the Africa Korps could hardly have a deep impact on the Russian front. On the other hand, the consequences of not sending any would have been disastrous to the whole mediterranean situation and relations with Italy. I don't think the Germans botched anything here.

[PanzerKing]

Here's the deal...

Italy had a large military...but they couldn't do a damn thing with it! Romania had a smaller, but more efficient force. I mean you really couldn't count on Italy to do anything without German help. I know that sounds mean, because every once in a few years they did something productive, but I'd be much more confident knowing that Romanians were fighting next to me rather than Italians. And it's not the average Italian soldiers' falt, for they were good men, but I think the Romanians proved far better allies.

[inahurry]

QUOTE

It is interesting to see that in a an important moment of our history both France and Germany supported Romania, but only France remained in the memory of the common folk as the benevolent helper.

Probably because Germany tried to impose its will. Bismarck was Bismarck. The replacement of Cuza with a German didn’t help either and for those who care more about long term consequences, for the Berlin treaty’s obligations we have to “thank” Bismarck a lot. There is also the way the German minority here was used, often a spearhead for grossly exaggerated demands. French have their flaws but they were mostly interested in economic advantages and in maintaining a balance of power and were the least eager to trade parts of our territory, in fact their interest was in a strong Romania. It seems they lost again, as we are clearly heading for disintegration. True, they don’t count much anymore and they should have some worthy politicians, which is not the case.

[Indrid]

my vote goes to Romania. Too bad it changed sides too quickly.