Rumanian Hospitality to Allied POW's in WWII

All,

I heard of a new book which of course I would like to buy
and read, but since I live abroad I have no way in getting
it, called " Sacrifice Missions ".

Throughout my many years of research I have determined
that people in Rumania despited the damages inflicted to
them by the Allied bombings , threated the US , UK and
even Russian airmen better than any other Axis country
and one should not forget that thanks to the Rumanian
hospitality, their kindness many airmen lives were
spared unlike at the Stalags, Hungaria and even Bulgaria
(Schumen ) were the airmen were not enjoying such
treatment. Of course princess Caradja , Mihai and his
mom should not be forgotten.

The previous US amabassador in Rumania was the daughter
of a pilot from 464th BG who was a former POW at Lagarul 13
and who survived thanks such hospitality.

I encourage anyone who has material or photos to post them
on here.

I am posting attached photos of Mihai giving an interview
to the 15th AF CCU1 who came to visit him in Bucharest
shortly after capitulation as well this of Colonel Gray, the
famous 98th BG GP CO along with Mihai at Peles,Sinaia.

On last photo Gen.Rush (47th Wng CO) along with Col.Gray.
All photos are from my private collection.

Alex

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

This post has been edited by yugit on November 13, 2011 10:20 pm

One should not forget that Hungary was occupied by German forces from 19 March 1944 on; therefore, all Allied airmen who landed on Hungarian territory were sooner or later taken away by the Germans. So, a comparison with Rumania is inappropriate.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 13, 2011 09:37 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary_during_World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942_raid_in_...hern_Ba%C4%8Dka

germans or hungarians did these crimes?

What are you talking about, Seeker? How is the Ujvidek/Novi Sad events in 1942 relate to the topic opened by Yugit?

Gen. Dénes

Denes

In general I agree,though with or without Germans around
the Allied POW's weren't treated well. I didn't start the
topic on purpose to blame any specific nation or people
but rather highlight the amount of gratitude the US, the
Brits and even the Russians owe to Rumanian people.

Never before in the history of modern warfare a nation
has voluntarily released 1200 POW's airmen who were
a great assest of a nation still at war with the Axis, risking
heavy retaliation upon themselves.....like Rumania did .

What I want to add is that Bazu courrageous flight to Italy &
back exemplifying once again the same hospitality and kindness
which no other nation at war ever showed. Its a reminder to the
US of such sacrifices which as we speak were not rewarded
but rather gone and forgotten...including this of Bazu.


Talking about war crimes against airmen....and leaving
the Germans and Austrians out for a minute, I would
take as example the Bulgarians at Schumen who treated
the US and Allied POW's real bad and between the other
would deny medical tratement to POW's , would execute
some POW at the camps and few even at the hospital and
beat most of the POW's during their initial interrogations.

After the Bulgarians capitulated ,the 15th AF has
sent Brig.General Hall , Lt.Col.Baldride and Maj.Smith ( former POW)
along with other ex POW's back to Bulgaria to conduct a war tribunal
regarding so called "hospitality " of the Bulgarian Army personnel at
Schumen. Various Bulgarians were convicted of war crimes and
several were executed shortly after their verdicts. Those who don't
agree pse. read all facts regarding General Hall trial through various
publications .

However and I mention again, my topic was not started
on purpose to spark anger addressed at a specific nation or people
for what has happened during a cruel war which was ragging some
67 yrs ago.

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

Best Regards
Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on November 14, 2011 12:01 am

Yugit,

You are correct in your starting post of this topic. I think in the text I am quoting you wanted to write "...treated ....better" instead of "...threated ....better".

Immediately after August 23, 1944 the American pilots held prisoners in Romania self-offered to take part as infantry men in the fights raging around Bucharest. The offer came from the captive American officer with the highest rank.
Their offer was politely rejected, because the Romanians decided they are much more valuable for their skills as pilots, and it was no need to be wasted in ground combat.

Now, my comments: This means that the American pilots did not feel resentment or grudge against their Romanian captors. If they would feel they were mistreated, they would wait with indifference in the sidelines. Also, this means the situation of the Romanian troops around Bucharest was not that desperate as to need any help they could get.

This post has been edited by Florin on November 14, 2011 10:42 pm

Yugit, what facts are you basing your statement on?

Again, before 19 March, there were no Allied airmen POWs in Hungary. After the occupation, most captured allies were taken away by the Germans. Some were hidden and taken care of, either by the Government, or by the population.

Also, there were cases when allied POWs were flown to Italy, more than once, by Hungarian airmen aboard aircraft, from a country occupied by Germans. The first one was done in a multi-engine aircraft, with Luftwaffe markings, without any meaning for defence, with a woman and a child also aboard. This is at least as daring as Bâzu's flight, if not more brave. The facts speak for themselves.

I am talking about Hungary, because that's the topic I am knowledgeable of. But how were the Allied airmen handled, for example, in Slovakia? I believe they were also treated well, some even joined the partisans and fought the occupiers. Others landed in Slovakia bringing in supplies. Some Soviet airmen assisted the insurection of August 1944 directly. And so on.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 14, 2011 06:32 am

Denes

I have general facts about the areas you've mentioned
though I won't go into them as Hungaria, Slovakia or Poland
are out of my research area. Generally speaking
the 15th AF POW's in Hungaria were transffered aft.
short captivity to Germany and Austria.

Certainly, except Rumania also the Chetniks of Mihailovic,
Tito partizans and any other partizans fractions have protected
the POW's. If you want to know more about Hungaria ...there are
books such as "Cuckoo over Vienna " and various BG's and FG's
histories of the 15th AF.... you researched a topic about 52nd
FG at Reghin on Aug 31,44

I am certain you heard about Lt.Tomnlinson & Lt.Frazier, both
were POW in Hungaria and for quite a while, I have Frazier
memories from his son, there little good he had to say about
his staying there before the Stalag. Contrary, every US airmen
who was POW in Rumania,never fogotten the times and their
respect for the Rumanian people.



Al

This post has been edited by yugit on November 14, 2011 10:02 am

What are you talking about, Seeker? How is the Ujvidek/Novi Sad events in 1942 relate to the topic opened by Yugit?

Gen. Dénes

Proves that the hungarian soldiers did genocid and crimes with full involvment before march 1944, when the "evil" german rulers did what they wanted with poor hungarian soldiers. I posted these links(few of many that can be found) becouse you are trying to throw the dead cat into german cort. Who did the massacres and tortures in Transylvania? Even if SS units were present i think you know who did it.

Are you somehow trying to flame this thread, Seeker?
There is a separate thread dealing with Hungarian (and Rumanian) war crimes, post there is you wish to reignite that topic.

Your remark is as stupid as an idiot Hungarian would show up here and would say something like this: "how can you say such good things about Rumanian soldiers and government, when they killed thousands of Jews and Gypsies?" How would this be related to the topic started by Yugit?

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 14, 2011 10:45 am

This is exactly my point: if you have only general idea and not specific facts, you should stick only to the topic you're intimately knowledgeable about. This way, no one would have a chance to challenge your general and broad statement: "Throughout my many years of research I have determined that people in Rumania despited the damages inflicted to them by the Allied bombings , threated the US , UK and even Russian airmen better than any other Axis country."

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 14, 2011 10:46 am

Denes

I definitely have an idea what I am talking about
and you know it .....I don't throw comments
just like that .

Though I mentioned something in general and
I repeatedly indicated that I won't deviate.

I don't see it why the topic is diverted eslewhere
nor why this thread has become ground for
emotions and lack of professionalism, period.

This post has been edited by yugit on November 14, 2011 11:14 am

Gentlemen,
The statement of Alex about the executions in Shumen POW camp does not correspondent to the truth at all. No one of the allied POW was killed in this camp. There are some cases of bad treatment there (Lt. Judd and Quigly after the escape attempt, Sgt Orona etc.).
The only true is that conditions in Shumen POW camp were very bad, compared with Romania.
But If you are well known with the documents of Brig.general Hall mission in Bulgaria (December 1944 - January 1945), you can see that the final report figures 23 cases of bad treatment in Bulgaria, from them only 3 from Shumen. There were no trials, only suggestions for punishment. Due to the differences between Bulgarian and US military laws, the matter was left to Bulgarian military courts.
Now is known only about one verdict for 6 months prison for a soldier, beating Sgt. Orona in this camp.
But in some other places in Bulgaria and occupied lands in Macedonia were several cases of killing allied flyers from local paramilitary units, policemen and army platoons, after the landing- Vratsa, Ruse, Bistrica ( now in Macedonia). But no one in Shumen.
The new communist rulers in Shumen killed ( after the trial of “People’s court”) the former Garrison Commander General Kovachev , but not for bad treatment of POWs ,but for organizing actions agains the communist partisans before 9 of September 1944.
Let us follow the documents, but not fiction stories…

Stan !!

I can't believe that is you writting all this. On your email
correspondance with me ,yourself have admitted all these
attrocities as taking place and even mentioned a Bulgarian officer
who executed a US enlisted POW then later on immigrated
to Canada. And yes Bulgarian Army personnel were
executed after Halls trial.

Secondly, if there weren't such attrocities why then
the need of Gen.Hall to be sent to Bulgaria , Maj Smith
and many other ex POW's from Schumen to return with
Hall commission ?...no such commission was ever sent to
investigate the Rumanian Army......given that in Rumania
1280 plus POW's were held captive.

Thirdly, many US & Allied airmen were beaten and denied
med.treatment in Bulgaria and last but not least you can
borrow from your friend Mark Lascotte, whose dad was
a POW at Schumen the Hall commission CD, it's all in there.

Does the name Garvin from 98BG rings a bell to you ?
if it doesn't, he was executed at the hospital and DIDN'T die
in hospital as you stated no matter if Plovdiv or Schumen it was
in Bulgaria ,the CCU1 photographer of Lt.Col.Graff, Capt. W.Rece
was severely tortured and his finger nails were pulled out...
an other pilot from 455th BG Lt. T.Markham was executed in Sofia
....these are a few examples out of many.


US POW carried long after WWII the mental and physical
pains they got in Bulgaria and some have prematurely died
after WWII because of treatment overthere....so what on
earth are you talking about ?

If will post some facts and names of US airmen badly tortured
and executed in Bulgaria ...will you then appologise regarding
the nonsese you wrote above ? In any case I don't appreciate your
comments and you twisting the truth on here about Schumen
especially the way you personally stampped me.

I don't write fictious stuff but if you think I do,then is about time
for me to consider our contacts and correspondance as concluded
Your remarks were outrages and beyond redemption,I took them
very personal .



PS : I don't need to ask Mark Lascotte, I talk to him
daily since 3 years fact well known by you. I also
talked to many ex POW's at Schumen such as
Darlington ,Hanson etc. none of them shared your
views. Be well and good luck to you !

This post has been edited by yugit on November 15, 2011 08:10 am

Alex,
CPL Julian Garvin never was in Shumen, he died in Plovdiv hospital on 6 of July, 1944.
(death certificate 44) .If you want me to be not angry with some unbelievable thing, starting from Mj.Smith, please contact me first. I am not eager to argue about things I see here in Shumen, not from some memories...As for Mark, please ask him about the story of his father again.
All of things I just wrote are true, and I am sorry to say, but leave this story for Shumen for better times, point your attention to the stories in Romania, in which, I believe, you are proffecional...