The Dacians, anything about them

It could be either a fragment of the murus dacicus (Dacian wall), which was approximately 3 m wide, or a part of Hadrian’s limes - an extended system of walls, forts and garrisons built during the emperor’s reign, which protected large parts of the Roman Empire frontiers, from Dacia to Britain, and which passed near Râsnov.

This post has been edited by Agarici on February 13, 2006 03:50 pm

I am new to this group and am excited to find a discussion of ancient Romania in this thread.

I have been trying to find a site similar to the one cnflyboy2000 posted about because I need such an ancient ruin for the introduction to a documentary/educational video we will be filming in Romania this coming May or June.

You can check my profile for a link to our site. Basically we are a Coeur D' Alene Idaho (USA) based video production company. Our videos deal mostly with wilderness skills and survival and have been featured on Discovery Channel and other major outlets many times. For the last year we have been working on reconstructive archaeology where we reconstruct ancient ways of accomplishing tasks. We have won many awards for our productions. Currently I am working on a video dealing with ancient iron making and weapons.

I've been trying to locate sites that might have held ancient forges and smelters for the making of iron and basic steel. In those times of conflict between the Dacians and Romans hundreds of thousands of steel and bronze tipped arrows were shot. That steel had to have come from someplace. Generally it was local smelters.

I have not had much luck with my letters and emails to museums in Bucharest so I thought perhaps someone here can help me with our project. At least I might be able to find some leads. We are hoping to film some samples of ancient weapons in Bucharest and discuss the kinds of weapons in use in ancient Romania. We are also in need of some sites as described above. Our travel plans are flexible at this moment and any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I have two years of Latin but somehow the language seems to have changed from what I remember of those classes some 40 years ago so my attempts to read Romanian sites have met with little success

There is more to this project but I didn't want my first post to be overly long.

Thank you for considering my questions.

Ron Hood

The nucleus of the Dacian kingdom was in the Orastie Mountains (part of the Sureanu Mountains). The ruins of the Dacian capital and several important strongholds are all located there, in a rather small area.

I think there are also remains of the smelters within these fortresses, so you should definetly go there. The area is still isolated and the mountains and forests saw little changes since the times when the Dacians were still inhabiting them. You will need a real off-road car to get to these places.

Thank you Dragos,

My Terra server does not show the Orastie Mountains but it does show the city of Orastie. Can you tell me how far, and in what direction these mountains are from Orastie?

The satellite images are not clear but there appear to be structures in the mountains a few KM NorthEast of the Orastie.

Thank you for the help!

Ron

The mountains are directly south of Orastie, at around 40-50 km. All of the Dacian strongholds are on top of mountains in the area.

There is a road from Orastie to the ruins of the Dacian capital, Sarmisegetuza Regia. I think that some of the other places are only accesible by foot.

Check out this link:
http://www.cimec.ro/arheologie/sarmi/1eng.htm

Good information, Thanks!

I found these photos

http://stutzfamily.com/TravPix/Romania/romania3.html

and this

http://www.geocities.com/cogaionon/pictures.htm

It looks very extensive. The area is similar in geography to the area of Idaho in which I live. This tells me that we need to find someplace nearby to stay. Hateg or Hunedoara appear to be the only local areas. Any thoughts?

I haven't found any references to the smelters you mentioned. Are they in the sites that require a pack trip?

For our purposes any ancient smelter would work as an example. The ruins can even be something like those mentioned earlier in this thread. The concept is pretty open at this point in time and we can retrain our sights on other topics related to Romanian martial history as we zero in on the actual smelters.

Thanks

Ron

The photos from the first link are not from the Dacian capital but from Ulpia Traiana Sarmisegetusa, which was the new capital built by the Romans after they destroyed the old Dacian one. These two are not in the same area.

If you want to see the Dacian one, you can stay in Orastie. You could also find a place to stay on the road between Orastie and the ruins. If you are granted the necessary approvals, you may be able to stay at the archeological station at Sarmisegetuza Regia.

I don't know for sure where the smelters are located. I assume some of them were in the capital, which was the largest Dacian city.

An Internet search yielded several results for that area.

According to this site: http://www.gk.ro/sarmizegetusa/dave/sarmis.htm there were three big workshops in Sarmisegetusa, one to extract iron from the ore and two foundries, as well as several smaller workshops.

In Hunedoara, near the medieval castle, there are also several ancient iron ore ovens, according to this site: http://www.dacii.ro/modules.php?name=News&...article&sid=483

I will start looking through several books and see if I can find more details, but the best idea would be into the Orastie Mountains, necause that is where the highest concentration of Dacian ruins is. Other archaelogical sites pale in comparison with it.

Thank you Victor,

I was unable to find that information because of my inability to write (or speak) Romanian. None of the commercial web translators (i.e. Babel Fish) can translate those pages but the clues you offer have put Sarmisegetusa at the top of my list. Now if I can just figure out how to say that name!

It's interesting how life moves in circles. Back in '64 I lived in Sinop Turkey for a year. During my tenure there I spent a considerable amount of time researching Mithridates VI Eupator. I also managed to obtain a few antiquities related to his time. Dragos03 suggested that there was a connection between Burebistas and Mithridates during that ancient time. It would be delightful to walk on the ground that might have been the site of a meeting of two great powers of an ancient age. Though I have as yet found no evidence that such a meeting had occurred it seems evident that there was a significant amount of commerce between the two powers. I'd imagine that more about this connection could be found in Constanta.

I remember standing on the Quay at Sinop, looking across the Black sea and saying to myself, "Someday I'm going over there to learn more about those ancient times". It looks like that time is here. It's a little wierd as after all of these years of travel and exploration I feel a sort of "Calling" to explore this topic.

It looks like I'll need to find someone who can guide us at the Sarmisegetusa site so we can find the workshops. If anyone can help me locate such a contact I'd appreciate anything you can do that might help me in this quest.

Once again,

Thank you!

Ron

Why did the Dacians keep raiding Moesia? The raids were undecisive and stirred trouble with the romans. What made them so confident they can take on the Roman Empire?

This post has been edited by Imperialist on March 25, 2006 09:49 pm

In "THE ROMAN PROVINCE OF DACIA" by Endre Tóth he states that "The remains of an iron smelter have been uncovered at Gyalár (Ghelar), in the vicinity of Alsótelek. From what little I've found I surmise that this is in Hunedoara County but Alsótelek appears to be something called "Comuna Teliucu Inferior"... Is this a place on the map?

If I travel to this area is there someone with whom I should speak or some agency that might be able to offer some help?

Just as a crazy thought... Has anyone heard of someone in Romania who has tried to smelt iron in a primitive smelter? I've done it and a few others in the US have but it would be great to keep this entirely in Romania.

It looks like the guidance I've received here has brought me to the location I need. For that I am sincerely grateful.

I have no idea why the Dacians kept raiding Moesia. I've wondered about the reasons for war many times since I returned from Vietnam.

Ron

This post has been edited by RonHood on March 26, 2006 07:38 am

Probably the most indicated would be the people at the Department of Ancient History and Archaelogy of the University of Bucharest, but unfortunately they don't provide too many contact details: http://www.unibuc.ro/en/catd_hciaa_en

There is also the possibility to contact these guys: http://www.dacia.org/2006/01e.htm, but, IMO, they should be taken with a grain of salt (they have some very debatable theories regarding Dacian history). Nevertheless they probably havesome contacts in the area you are interested in.

As for Teliucu Inferior, it is just South of Hunedoara. See here: http://www.hartionline.ro/ro/harta/d5.html

Yes, on the link I placed in the first post of this thread there was a streaming movie that showed a team of romanian and foreign scientists (I dont remember for sure, I think british) recreating ancient pottery and metal works. So though I dont have a clear answer, names places or contacts, I can tell you for sure someone did this stuff in Romania too.

I know this is off-topic but I just have to ask.

Were you part of the combat troops in Vietnam or were you non-combat?
My bet is, you were combat (just a hunch).

Also, if you could just give us a one-sentence description of how Vietnam changed you and your views on life, or any thoughts on what it meant for you, that would be great.

Thanks in advance.

Victor,

I've tried sending emails to the University of Bucharest. I found the scholarly articles of a couple of researchers there but I never received a reply. I also sent an email to the "administration" there but again no reply. I tried emailing various folks at museums in Bucharest but the emails either bounced or there was no reply. I've had my only real success right here. If I can't get in touch with someone I'll just come to Romania and bang on their doors

I am going to try to contact the person listed here

http://www.sister-cities.org/icrc/cityseek...lay?recID=34341

They want a sister city to share with. As the retired Mayor of a small City in Idaho I have some connections with the City Council here. Perhaps I can assist them in exchange for assistance.

The map helped me plot this out more. Thanks. I'll read what I can on the other group and go from there.

Imperialist,

I found some slim references on the net to something like that but I've never found the video or any more info. I did find some folks in England who tried to make iron but from what I read they had some technical problems.

mabadesc,

I was in the field in VN for almost 18 months as part of an Intel unit. When I returned in 1967 I was very confused and a little off. I learned that what Napoleon once said "It's amazing that these men will fight and die for a ribbon or a piece of cloth" is substantially true (BTW that was a paraphrase). Men will fight for any reason. When I lived with headhunters in Northern Peru I watched a dozen of the men go off to "War" with another tribe because they thought the other tribe had cast a spell on them.

I saw a number of conflicts in Chile when I taught courses to the troops of Agusto Pinochet (the dictator) . I didn't know at the time what they were fighting about but it was about freedom. The same has been true in Bolivia and other places I've been.

I was never there to be a part of the local wars, I was there teaching, exploring or learning skills for survival that I could bring back to the US to teach my students. I'm very tired of all that stuff now. I have a young wife and a two year old baby and it's time for me to stay away from battle and just pursue my studies.

Ron