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Romania in NATO| mabadesc |
Posted: April 28, 2004 12:52 am
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 Locotenent colonel  Group: Members Posts: 803 Member No.: 40 Joined: July 11, 2003  |
Hmmm....do you really think so? Chander, your memory regarding political threats is quite selective and illustrates the thought process of liberal western europeans. It's interesting that you don't forget for a second the past (and present) Nazi threat, but you completely forget the past agressive nature of the former Soviet Union. Have you forgotten the basic communist concepts of "world revolution", instituting communism through all means necessary - including violence, etc...? NATO was created to prevent further Soviet expansion in Europe. I highly doubt that the Soviets feared that NATO would invade Eastern Europe and hence formed their Warsaw pact... |
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| Chandernagore |
Posted: April 28, 2004 07:37 am
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Locotenent colonel  Group: Banned Posts: 818 Member No.: 106 Joined: September 22, 2003 |
I wasn't taking myself seriously you know 
No I don't forget it. I just don't put them in the same bag. Ideologically they were completely opposing systems.
Bah. Capitalism has been insituted in the west using all means, violence included. That's not where the difference lie.
Probably there was a difference between what the politburo thought and what the common people was left to believe. Oh, wait... can't we say the same about W's admin. ?  |
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| mabadesc |
Posted: April 28, 2004 06:29 pm
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Locotenent colonel Group: Members Posts: 803 Member No.: 40 Joined: July 11, 2003 |
Would you care to elaborate? How were they completely opposed? About the aggresive nature of the Soviet Union and the crimes it committed, you said:
Then I assume you have the same "Bah" attitude about the 6-9 million jews killed by the Nazis, and the tens of millions of people who died in WWII (Surprising, coming from such a sensitive man who couldn't stand the sight of a german military badge with a swastika on it without being offended). About the Warsaw pact, you said:
Well, at least you admit you are part of the "common people" who were fooled by the politburo. |
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| Chandernagore |
Posted: April 28, 2004 06:33 pm
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Locotenent colonel Group: Banned Posts: 818 Member No.: 106 Joined: September 22, 2003 |
I don't think so. Transylvania is part of Rumania. So a Rumanian forum is more appropriate to speak about Transylvanian problems. This has been your own position at times. |
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| Chandernagore |
Posted: April 28, 2004 06:50 pm
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Locotenent colonel Group: Banned Posts: 818 Member No.: 106 Joined: September 22, 2003 |
They dearly wanted to destroy each other. The egalitarian nature of the communist doctrine was totally unbearable to the elitist nature of the nazi fantasy world and vice versa. Mein Kampf clearly projects the death of the Soviet Union and the geographical position of the German lebensraum. Stalin (probably) only awaited to be ready to jump at the German's throath as well.
Not at all. I said "bah" about this :
I simply pointed out that the same arguments you used do apply to capitalism and so they must lack something. This is the straw men strategy. You put words in my mouth that I didn't say or misinterpret my position and then you attack that wrong position. It's easier than to debate the real position.
Well, now way you can logically draw that conclusion. Perhaps you can explain to me how you reach it ? But then, anyway, the politburo didn't give a damn about what the west think. They were only interested into what the comrade of the Soviet Republic thought. |
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| dragos |
Posted: April 28, 2004 06:50 pm
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 Admin  Group: Admin Posts: 2397 Member No.: 2 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
To speak about about the problems in Transylvania and in Romania in general, I have nothing against it. But promoting the autonomy of a Romanian region, and implicitly questioning the integrity of the Romanian state, is infringing the Romanian Constitution, let alone the customs imposed by moderators. However, the roots of such demands have the basis on an ill-fated history of this region for Romanians, so as far as you have assisted to these discussion, you probably understood why for the common Romanian, the revisionism regarding Transylvania is pretty equivalent to the Holocaust denial of some individuals (only regarding the outrageousness of this position - of the Transylvania revisionist and the Holocaust denier). |
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| Chandernagore |
Posted: April 28, 2004 07:41 pm
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Locotenent colonel Group: Banned Posts: 818 Member No.: 106 Joined: September 22, 2003 |
I completely fail to see how regional autonomy question the integrity of the Romanian state. Regional autonomy is but one tool in the arsenal of democracies. |
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| dragos |
Posted: April 28, 2004 07:55 pm
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 2397 Member No.: 2 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
The problem of this kind of discussions (on internet forums) is that there is a large room for interpretations. There is an word: so many opinions as so many people. Being excused for the lack of social-political sciences (both admins are engineers  ), we just try to keep the rules simple. |
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| Alexandru H. |
Posted: May 02, 2004 07:54 pm
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 Sergent major Group: Banned Posts: 216 Member No.: 57 Joined: July 23, 2003 |
I would have hoped that this NATO event would have created a little relaxation in the nationalist-revisionist camp. Chandernagore is right, the concept of autonomy is not against democracy. The US' federalism is an extreme autonomy but I don't see any signs of american dissolution. Until a good, viable proof, the only ones that contribute to the destruction of Romania are the VIPs.
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| Victor |
Posted: May 03, 2004 12:13 pm
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 Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
With the observatioin that US federalism is not based on ethnic criterias. |
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| Chandernagore |
Posted: May 03, 2004 12:54 pm
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Locotenent colonel Group: Banned Posts: 818 Member No.: 106 Joined: September 22, 2003 |
One function of regional autonomy is precisely to solve ethnic troubles before they reach national level :|
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| johnny_bi |
Posted: May 03, 2004 05:56 pm
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 Sergent major  Group: Members Posts: 214 Member No.: 6 Joined: June 18, 2003 |
... which is not the case in Romania... maybe in Kosovo. |
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| Chandernagore |
Posted: May 03, 2004 06:15 pm
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Locotenent colonel Group: Banned Posts: 818 Member No.: 106 Joined: September 22, 2003 |
Not ethnic problem in Cluj or elsewhere.
Understood. All is well. Transylvania 100% Rumanian ethnic, no tensions, global harmony. Roger. Out, definitively. |
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| Alexandru H. |
Posted: May 03, 2004 07:38 pm
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Sergent major Group: Banned Posts: 216 Member No.: 57 Joined: July 23, 2003 |
Ha Ha!!!
Well, I do think there are ethnic tensions, not only between Romanians and Hungarians, but also between Moldavians, Wallachians and Bucharest-ians... But I view the autonomy as an economical response to the current crisis, which could lead, in time, to better ethnic relations. It's not about ethnicity and I don't know why every freaking person sees himself as an "Ethnic Individual" rather than a "Religious" or "Class Individual". Nations shouldn't be only about that and no one should force you to define yourself as a "romanian" rather than an "orthodox", for example... |
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| johnny_bi |
Posted: May 03, 2004 10:41 pm
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Sergent major Group: Members Posts: 214 Member No.: 6 Joined: June 18, 2003 |
My mistake...
Ethnic problem in Cluj... Kinda Kosovo... The enemy use a kinda new Funar aer to aer missile... Better bail out! What happened to Cluj was more a political circus than ethnic tensions... Or political tensions, not "ethnical tensions" (of course IMHO)... Maybe some guys from Cluj could clearify the matter. As for me, I lived 6 years in Cluj and saw no real ethnical tension. I think that only in March 1990 Transylvania could have become a Kosovo... And that could have been tragic. |
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