Romanian vs Brandenburgers, Need some info

Hello all,

I need some info on the exploits of Romanian troops against the 15Komp/4 Reg FJIK (The Brandenburgers). I know for sure that SS FJ elements did not came to Romania to re-enact "Margarethe 2" n Bucharest, only Brandenburgers. But here the sources became very different in drawing the situations, because I have heard of 3 scenarios:

1. The Brandenburgers tried to came to Otopeni Airport, but because of heavy Romanian Flak they diverted to Mizil, where they regrouped and tried to escape to Jugoslavia. They were attacked and annihilated on the way back/

2. The Brandenburgers deployed to Otopeni, regained control of the airport, and after negotiations with the Romanians, they were allowed to go along with the other German units, and to retreat out of Bucharest, and eventually out of Romania. On the road, they were betrayed by the Romanians, and all were turned to the Soviets as POWs.

3. The Brandenburgers deployed to Otopeni, but they were attacked by the Romanian 4th Paras, and annihilated.

Nonetheless, this was the last airborne action of the Brandenburgers, because after that the remains of the unit were reorganised into "Brandenburg Division" and sent with the GD Division to fight the last desperate fights in Eastern Prussia against the Soviet Tide.

So, in conclusion, if you do have some fresh info on this subject, please do not hesitate to share.

Take a look in the other threads dealing with this topic (4th Parachute Battalion and Romanian paratroopers in action?).

I already checked the above mentioned threads. This and other sources I used to elaborate the 3 scenarios from. I need some fresh info, if possible.

Many thanks also for the suplied info, but I really need some more accurate data.

See also the discussion in the thread Me 323 Gigant.

Hallo, Alexi2102

Just a quick question with regards your scenarios,

If the Brandenbergers were annihaleted (which means wiped out to a man) how could the remains of the unit be formed into the Brandenberd Division??

Or do you mean the remainder of the unit that was left in Germany and not involved in the Romanian mission became the Brandemberger Division??

Kevin in Deva

Hi Alexei,

There is a lot of misinformation about this action in English-language publications.

Otopeni is sometimes described as "captured" by the Brandenburgers. In fact it was predominantly a German night fighter airfield and they merely had to land there.

In attempting to get there two or more Me323 Gigants were shot down by the Romanians, each of which contained up to a company of Brandenburgers. Survivors were captured by the Romanians. Perhaps only a minority of the Brandenburger Parachute Battalion reached Otopeni safely.

The betrayal was not by the Romanians but by the German General Gerstenberg. Gerstenberg had been captured by the Romanians in Bucharest on the evening of 23 August. He agreed on parole to go to Otopeni with a Romanian general to organise the peaceful withdrawal of German forces from Romania. As soon as he entered the German perimeter at Otopeni he arrested the Romanian general and organised the bombing and an attack on Bucharest headed by the Brandenburgers the following day. It failed.

It is unlikely that the Romanian 4th Parachute Battalion came into direct contact with the Brandenburgers at Otopeni. Part of it was caught in a friendly fire incident when it was hit by US heavy bombers while moving up to attack Otopeni and it suffered heavy losses.

However, the Brandenburgers did attempt two platoon-sized attacks on other Romanian airfields. The plan was to land in Ju52s and destroy many of the modern German aircraft in Romanian service. Both air-landings failed. On one occasion elements of the Romanian 4th Parachute Battalion were reportedly present.

After the failure of the attack on Bucharest the German force at Otopeni fled north. However, they were intercepted by major Romanian forces falling back from the front and surrendered to them, not to the Red Army. Some of the Brandenburgers amongst them slipped away and made their way back to German-Hungarian lines across the Carpathian Mountains

The operation was a major special forces debacle from the German point of view. The Brandenburger Parachute Battalion was effectively wiped out without making any significant impact.

Much of this is detailed in a Luftwaffe after-action reported prepared in early 1945. There is a copy in the Imperial War Museum in London and it has been published in Romania in both the German original and Romanian.

Cheers,

Sid.

Hallo, Alexi2102

Just a quick question with regards your scenarios,

If the Brandenbergers were annihaleted (which means wiped out to a man) how could the remains of the unit be formed into the Brandenberd Division??

Or do you mean the remainder of the unit that was left in Germany and not involved in the Romanian mission became the Brandemberger Division??

Kevin in Deva

Hello Kevin,

I was talking about the 15Komp/4 Reg of the Brandenburgers, the only part of the Division that have the Fallschirmschutzen Abzeischen der Heeres (Para Training). Beside the 15Komp, the Brandenburgers had also Kompanies specialised as Gebirgs, PzGren, and so forth.

The remains that I am talking about are the units that had not taken part in the failed Margarethe 2 in Romania. Among them, very few remained with the Kampfgruppe GD, most of the specialist (FJR trained ones) followed Kurt Rybka into SS-FJ BTL 600 in Eastern Prussia and Skorzeny JGVB 500 in the Ardennes.

So, basically, out of the "Brandenburg Division", only a few of them were Para trained, and this are the ones that my interested is focused on.

LE: Many thanks for the info Sid. Do you know by any chance that elements of the Brandenburgers jumped with Von der Heydte in Ardennes ?

This post has been edited by Alexei2102 on June 02, 2006 02:26 pm

Hi alexei,

I know little about German special forces operations in the Ardennes beyond the fact that all the fluent English speakers used by Skorzeny in the Ardennes offensive were former Brandenbergers. Skorzeny tends to get the credit for the groundwork of others - i.e. Luftwaffe paratroops in the rescue of Mussolini, Brandenbergers in the Ardennes, etc.

Cheers,

Sid.

Hi Sid,

Indeed, you are right about operation Greif, former Brandenburgers now members of Jagdverbande 500, and of course fluent English speakers were involved. I was talking about operation Stosser, when members of the FJR 6 and different jump qualified remnants of FJR and FJIK jumped with Von der Heydte. I was very interested if anyone knows that former jump-qualified Brandenburgers jumped with Kampfgruppe VDH.

Here are some rarely seen photos from "Operation Stosser". Credits: Greg Way's site (http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/index.html). Enjoy:

sid, that was not true, only handfull of those Skorzeny's commando in the arden offense could speak Englist, let along "fluently English", and most of those commandos had nothing to do with Brandenbergers

Hi Mars,

Not so. It is certainly true that only a small number of Skorzeny's men were English speakers. However, amongst them the only totally fluent ones (a very small number indeed) were all former Brandenbergers. These were the vital men.

Cheers,

Sid.

Hi Sid,

You're absolutely right. All of Skorzeny jump-qualified men were taken from "Brandenburg" and SS-FJR BTL 500. However, all of the English-speaking men were former Brandenburgers. So, you are very right on this issue also.

Cheers,

Al

sid and Alexei2102, did you read Michael Schadewitz’s "The Meuse First and Then Antwerp" ? this is the best book about Panzerbrigade 150 in the Ardennes offense published in English.

This post has been edited by mars on June 09, 2006 04:05 pm

@mars,

I admit the fact the I have not read the book you have just mentioned. However, my theory (and Sid's by affiliation) is based upon 4 books that I consider to be more precise on this particular subject, namely Brandenburgers:

1. Otto Skorzeny's memoirs.

2. "Forgotten Legions of the Waffen SS" by Antonio Munoz

3. "Brandenburgers" by Franz Kurowski

4. Fallschirmjager von der Waffen SS im Bild by Siegried Milius.

Books 1, 2 and 3 reffers speciffically to the subject. Book 4 only indirectly, when it mentions the fact that the remains of the SS-FJ BTL 500 were incorporated into Jagverbande 500 at Skorzeny's request, alongside "Brandenburgers elements".

Cheers,

Alex

Alexei, you should lay off any books written by Franz Kurowski ( is he the author of "panzer aces" ?) any way highly recommand "The Meuse First and Then Antwerp", in that book, Mr Michael Schadewitz's research reach to altra detail level, no other book could (at least in English, sorry, I could not read German) describe better on orgnization of Panzerbrigade 150 and the very details of the operation plan and execution.