Russian-Romanian conflict, in Moldova/Transdniester

Andreas, Imperialist and I never got to have a "debate" because he still cannot see that the topic of this thread is "conflict with Russia". I want to talk about "conflict with Russia" and he wants to talk about splashing a bucket of water over Moldova or something like that.

It is good that you are bringing this back on topic - that is what I was trying to do as well.

I also share your views.

But... NATO will never allow Romania to do any of those things. And I seriously doubt NATO will want to get involved. Romanians may care a lot about Moldova (well, we know at least one who does ) but NATO does not.

Radu

You say you agree in principle with helping Moldova, but you've constantly brought up a range of obstacles to the idea - from "is it worth it" (wait, that means you have doubts about the said principle), to unlikely scenarios (missiles launched into Bucharest) and unrealistic goals (defeating Russia).

Bucket of water on a house in fire may be silly to you, but is the right thing to do. You have a bucket of water and your neighbor (who happens to be your little brother too) needs help, do you sit and ask an accountant "is it worth it"?

My "help strategy" was pretty clear cut. You shouldn't ask me to explain more since you haven't explained a thing about what the Russian involvement and the Russian goals may be in your opinion.

As for what the help strategy plans to achieve, it's rather simple. To extend help to Moldova. The rest would be seen and adressed as events progress.

OK, here we go again... welcome to the carousel. Round and round it goes...

Going back to the Wikileaks... the fear is that "extending help to Moldova" will cause a "conflict with Russia".

So, let us go ahead... Romania "extended help to Moldova", the "events progressed" and now there is a "conflict with Russia". What next?

Radu

OK, here we go again... welcome to the carousel. Round and round it goes...

Going back to the Wikileaks... the fear is that "extending help to Moldova" will cause a "conflict with Russia".

So, let us go ahead... Romania "extended help to Moldova", the "events progressed" and now there is a "conflict with Russia". What next?

Radu

What carousel. I said early in the thread we should offer Moldova whatever weapons, ammunition and special forces we may spare and Moldova may need. What part of that wasn't clear enough? What would be the goal of doing that? Beefing up the Moldovan forces in any way we can. Is that clear enough now?

I've asked you what do you think Russia's goals and involvement would be.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on October 11, 2011 07:40 pm

OK, here we go again... welcome to the carousel. Round and round it goes...

Going back to the Wikileaks... the fear is that "extending help to Moldova" will cause a "conflict with Russia".

So, let us go ahead... Romania "extended help to Moldova", the "events progressed" and now there is a "conflict with Russia". What next?

Radu

What carousel. I said early in the thread we should offer Moldova whatever weapons, ammunition and special forces we may spare and Moldova may need. What part of that wasn't clear enough? What would be the goal of doing that? Beefing up the Moldovan forces in any way we can. Is that clear enough now?

I've asked you what do you think Russia's goals and involvement would be.

The "carousel" is that in every post you mention that you want Romania to help Moldova. I am sure that everyone got it by now. In fact, the entire premise of the eponymous "conflict with Russia" in this thread is based on "help for Moldova." But, bizarrely, you insist. I am willing to bet that in your next response you will mention "help for Moldova." Nici o masa fara peshte, nici postare de-a lui Imperialist fara "ajutor pentru Moldova". I am sure you will eventually get tired of repeating what everyone knows... I know I am tired...

Russia's goals? I have no idea but, well, the common belief seems to be that Russia wants to "extend help to Transdnestra" in the same way that Romania wants to "extend help to Moldova".
Now, let us imagine that Moldova/Romania manages to push the Transdnestran/Russian troops out of Transdnestra and Moldovan/Romanian troops liberate the entire Transndestran territory and take Tiraspol. What do you think Russia will do? Will the Russians go home? Will they counter-attack? What if they push their way into Moldova all the way to Prut. What will Romania do? What if the Russians do not want to stop on Prut?

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on October 11, 2011 07:58 pm

So you complained I haven't satisfactorily outlined my help strategy for Moldova in the thread until now, I answer pointing out again what I already said earlier in the thread about sending ammo, ammunition etc., and you now complain that I'm talking too much about help for Moldova? That's brilliant.

And I'm not so sure you got it either, since instead of my eagerness to help out Moldova, all you understood by now is:

I fully understand your desire to get into a fight with Russia.

So you have no idea.... but you grilled me and others in this thread like there was no tomorrow and you were the head of CSAT demanding detailed strategies and long-term planning... That's rich. If you have no idea, then how and why do you expect us to say "what happens afterwards/next"? You're asking us how to "defeat" Russia but have no idea what Russia's goals or level of involvement could be. Then your question is moot.

Instead of spending so much energy asking more and more questions, why don't you present your scenario? Asking questions is by now your way of avoiding any heat for making erroneous statements/scenarios and putting yourself in a "headmaster" position where you judge and dismiss our answers.

Wahey! I just won the bet!
Wanna bet again that in your next post you will mention "help for Moldova"? round and round it goes.

Look, I repeat, I fully understand your and anyone else's desire to help Moldova. Not an issue. Help for Moldova was never in question. In fact, considering that help for Moldova is the cause of this "conflict with Russia" that this whole thread is about, we should not even need to discuss it. It is intrinsicly understood that Romania is compelled to help Moldova.

I have no strategy in the case of a "conflict with Russia". I am not the one demanding a "conflict with Russia". You are! Since I am the who does not want "conflict" and you want "conflict", it is bizarre that you ask me to explain my strategy. I am entitled to be worried about "what will happen to me and my family in the case of a conflict with Russia". A conflict will affect me whethr I want that conflict or not. That is why I am asking these questions. It is frightening that you and other fools of your ilk are so eager to get into a "conflict with Russia" without the ability to even consider the repercussions.

What will happen AFTER Romania gives help to Moldova? What is the next stage? No idea? God help Romania with such "strategists".

But you know what? I could not care any less. To call this whole debacle "moronic" would be an insult to morons.

Radu

Great for you, you want a cookie?

You either forgot or you're lying through your teeth. Here, let me remind you how this was an issue and how it was put in question by none other than you:

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...indpost&p=82463

Glad we could make you change your mind. Or is this only one of your "tactical" concessions?

First of all, I was asking you what the Russian goals and involvement would be. You keep asking us what Romania could do against Russia in such a conflict but you have no idea what "Russia" would mean in such a conflict, in terms of forces and goals.

Secondly, where do I "demand" and "want" a conflict with Russia?

Yes, I see you keep asking questions, and when someone points out they are wrong you say "those were questions, not statements, know the difference?" When asked for something more substantial than questions you reply "I have no idea". It's a great way of staying out of the kitchen but putting the heat on others. The game stops here.

I have no idea unless you say something about the Transdniestrian/Russian side of this conflict. You said you have no idea about that, so why do you ask me?

Fools of my ilk. Oh well, I know you always have contempt for your interlocutors, or at least for me. Maybe you should work on that attitude.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on October 12, 2011 12:10 pm

Apologies Imperialist... there is no "ilk"... you are unique.

You managed to turn the whole thread into a discussion about "why does Radu hate Moldova?" and now you are attmpting to make it "why does Radu have contempt for everyone on the forum?". Bravo! More manipulation...
No Imperialist, my contempt for you is nothing more than a reflection of your contempt for me.

I told you before... "discussions" with you are like "competitie municitoreasca pe ceapeu". You win, but you still remain a "ceapist". So, here is another medal for you. You won! In the future I will ignore you.

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on October 12, 2011 01:50 pm

I remind you that you came on this thread and started asking questions.

I and others answered the best we could but you brushed off the answers.

But when we asked questions, you either answered with more questions or with "I have no idea but...":

Q: So your answer is that if Transdniester/Russia attacks Moldova then Romania should do nothing militarily? Did I understand right?

Your answer:

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?

Q: What would be Russia's involvement and goal in your opinion?

Your answer:

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...indpost&p=82689

Eventually, after I pressed you again, you admitted "I have no idea".

So, before complaining of contempt from others, try to have a normal dialogue. This isn't the first thread in which you try this with me.

Now you call me a fool and a "ceapist". Very nice.

Topic temporary locked for cooling off the spirits.

... and Smirnov's OUT!!!
Buh-bye...
Nice headline!

What about that scenario?
http://www.ziuanews.ro/dezvaluiri-investig...patru-ore-16535

Right..

During the south ossetian war, it took to russians and their south ossetian allies one week to advance some 60 km, with the georgian army beeing at 18.000 men.
They were transporting forces in the area weeks before, using existing railways.

It takes a 3 attackers to 1 defender ratio to have chances to win an atack. So, if we consider the romanian grond forces at 40.000 men, they need to transport by surprise 120.000 men and weapons, using landing crafts, cargo planes and helicopters.

Well, don`t think they are able.

And attacking an UE and NATO country would be a quite stupid thing to do, even for russians.

That journalist is uninformed and panicard. Or maybe paid?

I'm not too sure you're right, Hadrian! Which does not mean that I believe the scenario as viable! But I believe that with a mixed group of forces (mechanized marine infantry, airborne troops supported by strong aviation and marine forces) and acting in force in a surprise moment, Russia may achieve a really good military result against countries like Romania or Bulgaria f.i. I do not speak here about the political issues Romania being a NATO member, I was analyzing only a possibility, with minimal chances of happening!