Looking to buy Reproduction Uniform

I wear md 1924 great coat at WWII because it is a convertat RSR greatcoat md 1966 and this great coat is based on the md 1924 great coat, if I would have a custom made great coat it would be a 1939model. The 1893 great coat I use at WWI reenactments is unique in Romania and I use to portray the look of the romanian soldier in WWI there was a lot of 1893 equipment in use in WWI.

Unfortunately Stoica is clearly no expert in gas masks, there are so many big errors in that article that I was shocked (no mention of the md 39b, no mention of the md 32, confusion between md 35 and md32, confusion between romanian and german gas masks, no mention of the cavalery gas masks, misinterpretation of photos, etc.. finally no real proof towards md 35 gas masks used by the army, only the old excuse the "veterani"). Also it would be nice if he could post the source of the information. I have written two big articles on the roamanian gas mask in Buletinul Muzeului Militar National nr 2008 and 2009 (hope I'm remembering correct) they are based on archival documents, a study of the photos from MMN collection, a study of the MMN gas mask collection, my experience collecting romanian gas masks and a lot of books and other printed material from the era. I hoped to see an article on gas masks from Mirel at least he studies the archives and he is a real historian, not just an amateur.

Yes, dear aviatorul2000, we always inform the public, you dont have to worry about it and to be persuasive, cos doesnt work with me. Be a man and say straight what you have to say. Ask your ATM president how his persuasion worked on 2008 with me and my fellows. Also, ask him, if you are not the very himself, which I presume, how is the bayonet move that you show at every period you reenact: the one throwing the rifle in the air, catching it, struck with the rifle butt. This the move he learned it from ADS when he met them for the first time in Oradea and it is a move that we played with it, cos it is valid only for the nowaday romanian army. It didnt existed in the past, in ww2, ww1, 1877 or 1848 and so on. Ask him to show you the regulations were this move is described, lets say for the napoleonian era, where you use it, as the tape show.

Mihnea, why dont you post your informations about romanian ww2 army gas masks, and the sources, which I supose were studied with "acribie" (you know what I mean )?

Gentlemen, you are just generically and vehemently rejecting any
information and evidence that comes from a certain direction. If ATM has
made any mistakes, that you did not prove yet, then we shall admit them and
correct them. The article is about gas masks used for reenactment, so why
would it dwell over different types of filters and masks, or over those for
cavalry? A forum is not made for expressing personal hatred, especially for
someone who did not harm you in any way, but for exchanging information.
Mihnea: your explanation regarding the uniformological exceptions you are
resorting to just prove my point - thank you. Also, ignoring the veterans'
eyewitness accounts has sometimes led you and others astray. By the way,
there are new photos with Romanian soldiers wearing summer canvas uniforms
in battle zones of WWII - not during training:
http://www.traditia-militara.ro/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1268419686. They have not
been tampered with and do not worry about the source - they are all part of
the ATM archives.
21inf: the off-topic question about the strike with the rifle butt from
above shall be answered in due time. Stoica has confirmed that he had
learned about this move from your group, as something you had practiced in
the modern-day army - although the move was described only in the
regulations manual of 1955, but not anymore in the '80s - at least not in
those available in libraries of the mountain troops units of northern
Romania. However, I wish to point out that the main issue here, and in
reenactment in general, is not only what the regulations said, but what the
soldiers actuall did in battle - they did use this move since the dawn of
history.
Regarding the initial topic, the obvious conclusion is that I have proven
that your statements: <<romanian army had no summer uniforms in ww2, only
winter uniforms>> and <<I consider cotton pants as incorrect for reenacting
WWII>> are not to be maintained by people with a clear conscience.

Ok, at least now i know who is behind the nick aviatorul2000.

Anyway, we never said that we learned the bayonet fight in mountain troops, we were infantry.

I'm sorry but I have a "few small" problems with your last post:

1 " The article is about gas masks used for reenactment, so why would it dwell over different types of filters and masks, or over those for cavalry?" You must be jocking, if that post confuses gas mask models and details how can you use them for reenacting when you don't know what was used in WWII by the romanian army? This is just beyond realism. The information in that post is NOT CORRECT historically there are many mistakes, and BIG mistakes, not just small details.

2. "I consider cotton pants as incorrect for reenacting WWII" It is a personal opinion and it is my wright to have this opinion. I never said that they were not used, but that they were less common. I posted on the other page, a photo in color (original color, not a colored black and white), of a romanian soldier wearing m1941 pants made from cotton. They are different from the training pants that were simpler and straight cut. This photo is more important than any other on the subject as we clearly see that they are not training pants. You obviously confuse my opinion on reenactment with that on romanian military history. Something hisrically correct is not necessarily correct for reenactment. Also I consider german helmets incorrect also as they are not specific and don't represent the romanian soldier although there are pictures of german helmets used by the romanian army. Any problems with this opinion? (I'm not referring here to paratrooper helmets)

3. "They have not been tampered with and do not worry about the source - they are all part of
the ATM archives." At least on is from the MMN collection, a print of the picture doesn't mean that you own the wrights of that picture.

4. "they did use this move since the dawn of history." Really? You mean the dawn of rifles / muskets, as doing that with a bow or crossbow is a bit... . Have you ever touched a real (or a replica) flint lock musket from the napoleonic wars? I recommend to try your move with one, in a authentic formation not like in your demonstration spread 2m apart.

5. "you are just generically and vehemently rejecting any information and evidence that comes from a certain direction. If ATM has made any mistakes, that you did not prove yet, then we shall admit them and correct them." I have not rejected any information interpreted correctly. Please provide the source of the pattern of the "wind jacket" used by ATM, in my opinion they were smaller and used as a replacement of the wool or cotton tunic. Please explain how accurate is a ATM paratrooper jump suit made from two parts, the original suit, as proven by the original found by ATM was one piece. Also on the paratrooper jump suit, please provide a photo of the original jump suit were the pocket for the dagger is clearly visible, or the remains of this pocket.
You "asked" for it. And I have plenty more question about the uniforms and equipment ATM is using.

6. Remember I speak for myself, all the opinions posted here are mine not those of the reenactment group I'm part of.

7. Your silence on the kneeling subject means that you quietly approve me.

8. It would be nice to see a photo of you in one of your WWII uniforms so that we can help you improve it, if necessarily. This would help the foreign reenactors a lot. And also would enrich the information found on this english speaking forum.

I will, but it will take me some time as I need to prepare a few more photos as the articles in Buletinul MMN were unfortunately "thin" at this chapter because the format limited them and their size. Also I hve new items in my personal collection that also need to be documented.

Yes the ATM members have a very distinct writing habit that was clearly seen with the other two "mirrors" we have encountered on the A6D forum. Also they seem very quiet on their forum, with one exception, interesting. I wonder why?

1. Mihnea, pls offer your factual information. I would be glad to learn more from you and to overlook your manners. We, from ATM, might not be experts on gas masks, but we proved that M35s were used, even if rarely, by Romanian soldiers in WWI. I remember we two used to be friends and enjoyed finding together things that seemed to contradict common and conventional knowledge - that was before you resigned from our group in 2008. Can't you get over it?
2. your personal opinion on cotton pants contradicts your personal opinion on greatcoats; if reenacting shows something that is historically correct, even if rare, then it is correct
2a. German helmets were worn by entire Romanian units, especially cavalry - there are very many photos and documents on the subject. However, it is also my personal choice to reenact WWII Romanian soldiers by wearing the Dutch helmet model - this does not mean that a German helmet would be incorrect
3. the pictures I have posted have been found by myself in the National Archives Fond Documente Fotografice. MMN might have an additional print of the same negative. The colored picture posted by stoica on the ATM forum is from the book "Decisive Battles of Hitler's War" by A.Preston, published by Chartwell Bools Inc. in 1977. It is funny that you ask me to reveal the sources of the photos on the ATM forum, but you seldom have given the good example – please do reveal your sources
4. I have used a flintlock replica in reenactment. As you know, hand to hand fighting is not allowed in Napoleonic reenactments - just pushing, with the musket held diagonally in front, bayonet pointing towards the sky. Hand to hand fighting tends to get ugly in real war and the first lines of the initially tight formations are being fringed and mangled. In those situations hits with the butt of a reversed musket occur very often. The manuals recommend 2m intervals when practicing - this is why in ATM demonstrations we do the same
5. I did not ask for any of your questions, of which you seem to think you no in advance the answers. I refrain from criticizing your group's uniformological shortcuts. I just want to exchange information
5a. as you know, the mountain troops' wind jackets, as other items of the Romanian uniforms, were made in many variations. We have several pictures in our archives - I will show you some shortly
5b. the original jumpsuit of Romanian paratroopers was made in one piece. Some of us, not all ATM members, have had to have them made in 2 pieces, but the pieces are being worn hefted together and are not to be worn separately during reenactment. You know because you are an insider. There are 2 reasons for this shortcoming: first, we did not find enough zippers in the correct length, color and material; second, because the original zippers did not open from both ends, so, for physiological reasons this solution is more comfortable
5c. you can see pictures of the knife pocket on the orginal paratrooper's jumpsuit at: http://www.traditia-militara.ro/forum/YaBB...=1300171570/0#0
6. it is strange that you do not care about your comrade's attire, but you do have a dire urge to help improve mine. Your criticism of the smaller flaws in other groups, before helping your own comrades to improve their more serious shortcomings, is very telling. Anyway, I acknowledge and understand your reluctance to talk about your comrades' equipment
7. I thought we were understood on the subject of Romanian soldiers kneeling for prayer: as we said since the beginning, in 2008, regulations and manuals never mentioned kneeling for prayer, but soldiers and officers sometimes did kneel down for prayer, while gathered, sometimes even in formation, and in uniform - see: http://www.traditia-militara.ro/forum/YaBB...244627470/12#12
8. you can see me in WWII uniform at: http://www.traditia-militara.ro/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1285000154. I am the 1st from the right in the first photo posted on 26sep10 at 10:56. Your suggestions, as long as they are constructive and documented, will be most welcome"

1. Did you prove that Md 35 gas masks were used? In the two pictures you provide the model cannot be established 100% the civilian Md 1935 and military Md 1943 canister are almost identical is size. Also the the first picture is probably pre 1940 so it might not be a gas mask canister. The other is very blurry, a scan from a book, also this picture is from the winter 1944-1945 and in another picture from that same group of photos the gasmasks visible are all Md 1943 canisters. The picture presented as depicting a german gas mask is actually a romanian Md 1943 canister, same look as the german gas mask but very different size. I have told you were to find good information, the article has archival references that you can check.

2. Exactly, it contradict as it's a personal and subjective opinion. But I'm unique (helmet cover, winter camouflage, great coats, summer tunic, etc), it would be ok if there would appear a single reenactor in WWII gear with cotton pants, and until now it only happened twice (ZMMN 2005 and ZTM 2008) in 6 years of reenacting so it's ok (I don't consider those mistakes), but if an entire reenactment group would appear only with cotton pants I would consider that a mistake.

3. MMN has negatives, not only prints. But if they are from the National Archives they belong to the national archives, not to ATM. That famous color photo is not originally in color but it's painted, the source is not important I just wanted to point out that it's not correct to consider a recolored photo as a color photo because the colors are not correct. The photos I post that are from MMN collection I generally add a great big watermark so not to be replicated, before doing this I posted the source (the name of the book or otherwise) and for photos taken from the web I always post the link. If I ever forgot to mention the link show me the message and I will correct it immediately.

4. Unfortunately I have never seen a photo of you or any other ATM member using a replica that is accurate in size shape materials and mechanism. But I would like to see one. The Napoleonic tactics are based on mass of troops and not individual fighters such a move in a tight formation would be very difficult to make efficiently, in my opinion it's not a simple coincidence that it was presented in training manuals only when the rifles were very short.

5. I'm pointing out that those that consider them perfections make quite a lot of mistakes. The group I'm part of (A6D) makes a very different type of reenactment based more on living history and we do not consider us perfect, also we do not want to be perfect. Me on the other hand I want to have the best possible reproductions.

5a. I know many things, but I hope that the photos you promise are good quality and the details are visible. Not like the ones you provided for the Md 35 gas masks that are not clear.

5b. I observed that they are 2 piece jupsuit when I first saw them in public. At one of your events when I photographed them, so the public will also notice. I know that zippers are sold by the meter so this excuse is not realistic for me. And you don't use a very special zipper that cannot be found on the market.

I happy to know that my inquiry about jumpsuits has encouraged ATM members to search more information on these subjects. I helped you help yourselves and other reenactors, I have not given any information.

6. You have told me the mistakes of my reenactment colleagues although I already knew them. What do you want me to do more, force them to modify there privately purchased uniforms? With time and money I assure you that all of these problems will be corrected. I'm only a member in my association, and again I speak in my name only. You, as the secretary of ATM speak for the entire group so there is difference.

7. Isn't that exactly what I was saying?

8. I say, what about the cuffs, they should be closed with two buttons for the 1939 tunic. And what about the stainless steel "salad bowl" used as canteen on WWI backpacks? They don't look like the ones used by the romanian army.

Mihnea, you have so much free time to read and answer to a such long love letter, which seems to tell the same story that was already told elswhere? (i didnt bother to read all, cos is a deja vu and never ending story).

1. I agree you are an expert on gas masks - pls tell us what is wrong in stoica's article, possibly without letting your emotions spill over.
About the M35, I think you are in denial phase. We did not prepare a case for a lawsuit; I am sorry that the quality of the photos does not satisfy you, but by their size, the horizontal lines and the fact that they are worn vertically, the canisters in those photos make reenactment with M35 canisters correct. Actually you have to prove that they were NEVER used by the Romanian army.
2. based on the evidence shown (documents and photos), ATM has just ordered summer pants for our whole group.
3. the colored photo is ORIGINAL and has not been modified in modern times. I do not intend to make a big fuss about copyrights for photos; you noticed I avoided showing those that belong to the museum and those published in the Romanian books, even if they contained good proof for the point I wanted to make
4. it is true that you have never seen an ATM member using a flintlock. This is beside the point, as you have not been appointed judge of reenacting. The tactics you describe are correct, but they do not take into consideration the phase in real wars that is not allowed in Napoleonic reenactment. See: http://www.traditia-militara.ro/forum/YaBB...=1300272188/1#1
5. everybody in ATM admires you efforts and achievements in acquiring the best possible equipment for reenacting
5a. I am not responsible for the quality of the pictures I find. As I told you, ATM also relies heavily on veterans' testimonies, that, unfortunately, you reject completely. We do not prepare for a lawsuit where we have to prove things that we know are right. We are known to be very careful about these things and have always corrected our mistakes when proven wrong. Regarding the wind jackets, we cannot be wrong, because we have been assured by veterans that we are right
5b. the zipper has to be kaki with yellow, stained metal. I am looking for some right now and do not find any. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Nobody, except you, has noticed our paratroopers jumpsuits were made in 2 pieces. You know from us. We do not give paramount importance to items that do not show, like underpants, lining, etc. I am glad you found the information interesting at http://www.traditia-militara.ro/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300171570. Please do not help just by first criticizing and asking for information only afterwards
6. I have not posted anything about most of the uniformological mistakes of your comrades, because this is not my aim and because I know the difficulties. Do not think that I do not know if I don't tell in public. Imagine the difficulties ATM has, since we reenact more military units and more historical epochs. We all do our best. Actually we invited you to cooperate with us, but you refused
7. I am glad we can agree on something. Actually, in the beginning, you had been very categorical on the impossibility of kneeling for prayer in the Romanian army
8. I see you continue criticizing others for shortcomings characteristic for almost all of your own comrades. I will not fall into the trap of lowering myself to this level and reciprocating. You are right about the cuffs - most of us have only one instead of two; we shall sew the 2nd one on, although not all tunics throughout WWII had a 2nd cuff.
The dishes we bought are the best solution we could find for now; they look like new, very polished zinc dishes. Zinc dishes cannot be found and are also unhealthy to use - we do not want to reenact also the disease

1. I will make a article about romanian gas mask and post it on A6D forum, and maybe here. I have only to explain 2 photos that is easy, as I recognize the gas masks but the veterans I cannot contradict as it's going to be my word against theres but I do have a theory about the Md 35 gas masks.

2. It would be nice if ATM would allow more individuality in there uniforms and so would be more accurate, as I see you have funds to spend, in my opinion, on not important accessories. But if they are RSR pants I'm sure they will be cheap. I prefer wool pants, as even in the summer reenactments they don't bother me.

3. That famous photo was colored a long time ago, maybe in WWII to use for propaganda, but it's not a color photo, it's a recolored photo. You accused me in the previous post that I don't post links to photo I post, please support your accusation with some examples, I want to correct my mistakes.

4. Yes, fortunately we only reenact, that "faze" you are talking about, is never portrayed in reenactments so we only theorize how it happened. But the move ATM uses is a regulated one from the communist era, not simply using the gun like a club. And using the gun like a club is very artistic so it's no wonder you see it in many works of art.

5. Happy to now that I have admirers, please use me as an example as much as possible. And also sending me a card on special occasions would be nice.

5a. I'm talking about tailoring details, I'm sure that the wind jacket was used.

5b. Nope, my theory was confirmed by our tailor, but I have observed that they are two pieces, when I have seen you wearing them, see photos (click on them to see them big, I made the photos). The zippers you used seem to be simple black ones, but from the original photos, I seen they were metallic silver, or yellow. I'm busy with work and other stuff so I can't help you with the zipper wright now.



6. Please do so, it would be nice, it should not be hard, we reenact fewer periods. And we know about those boots, and about the RSR uniforms.

7. To end this subject, in my opinion, and this opinion is shared by other reenactors that are not in ATM. Kneeling in formation or not, is correct only if the unit takes part in a religious serving presided by a priest and according to Romanian traditions and church regulations at that serving kneeling is necessary. But if at a simple commemoration moment (were a priest is not present) the reenactors kneel in formation, this is not correct , not even if the officer is reciting a prayer that is repeated by the troop (as if on the front line, officers had noting to do but remember to recite priers together with there soldiers). These things are valid for all the historical eras.

8. We do not use salad boles for WWI canteens, and once again I know that we use unmodified RSR uniforms, but we do not pretend that they are modified and correct.

@21 inf: Trying to make myself clear for other reenactors, they won't learn anything. And yes it takes me ages to write these posts (2 hours +).

1. I thank you in advance for the article you will write on gas masks. Afterwards I shall post some information of my own. I greet your wise ruling on veterans – using wisely the information they provide is a necessity
2. the average ATM equipment is above average anyway. We all strive hard to improve; you individually, we as a group
3. I just disagree with you on the artificial coloring of the photo. Nobody understands why you keep insisting on this
4.want to see positive proof, see the photo of an official demonstration in July 1938:
http://www.traditia-militara.ro/forum/YaBB...=1300272188/0#3
5. we always send you cards for Christmas and Easter and we have invited you and your group to all our events (that’s us) – pity you never answer (that’s you)
5a. the mountain troops’ wind jacket was made in many versions. We have chosen the most successful, the model that has remained in use of the Romanian army, with very little changes, till the nineties – as you have already written on another forum; again, you choose to contradict just because ATM has made a choice that was confirmed by veterans – also photos are available and I shall post them shortly
5b. you are right; in the first photo it is accidentally visible that the paratrooper’s jumpsuit is made of two pieces – the rest is sheer evilness. I still will refrain from taking revenge by posting really compromising photos of your group
6. it is good you know about some of your group’s shortcomings; this is the first step towards improvement. Those you mentioned are not the only ones; try harder. I will not criticize your group in public, because I feel that whoever does that displays profoundly bad taste
7. some of the photos show no priest in presence of the kneeling soldiers – of course, the photographer might have missed the priest
8. we do learn a lot, but we rely mainly on documents, pictures and veteran’s accounts. We do not use bowles as canteens (we have canteens) – we use dishes as dishes; they have the same shape and dimensions as the original ones. It’s just that they are in stainless steel instead of zinc. We do admit our imperfections (see all my replies); I appreciate your gesture of admitting that your group’s equipment is not altogether correct. Let us all improve. If you have any questions about the ATM equipment, try asking first; this would leave the impression that you are objective and genuinely interested in new information.

This post has been edited by aviatorul2000 on March 19, 2011 06:07 pm

Mihnea, aviatorul2000 seems to be a very documented and well intended guy. He dont want to criticise your group in public, they just criticise your group in public on their forum, posting personal emails, which are not private in their conception, since they were sent by the sender to the destinatary.

Last year they took a photo of me and one guy from us in 1848 uniforms, they said they want to have a photo together with us and in less than few weeks they post that photo on their forum saying that we didnt knew how to wear our breadsacks, because i had my b.s under the eppaulete and the other guy didnt!!! Can you imagine, dear Mihnea, what a great mistake we did!!! How less were we documented and how foolish we weared our b.s!!!! This is not criticism at all, we are just a bunch of idiots who need guidance from someone who knows better how to do reenactment. You'll see aviatorul2000 will agree me, as he is a superior form of life.

Also, the bayonet fight that they reenact is extremelly well documented with paintings made by painters who for sure participated to battle and that painters kindly asked the combatants to freeze in some positions, seconds before stabbing their enemies, just to allow the painter to do his job and leave a great source of informations for reenactors from XXIst century. Also, a statue is also a great source of info for reenactment, how could we be so idiots that we passed in front of it hundred of times and we never figured out that we have a spectacular source of info just under our noses? I should thank to aviatorul2000 boss that he revealed a such precious source of info they use (why the boss of aviatorul2000 answered and not himself, cos aviatorul2000 spoke here, and why to answer on another forum, is a "mistery" to be researched by next generations).

Mihnea, I suggest that we two to go back in our caves or under the rocks we live, blow our noses and trying to live the next day with the crushing sentiment that aviatorul2000 (and his boss from the other forum) had right again, as they had from the begining, many many years ago, but we were so handicapate and unable to understand him.

(Now, seriously, this is a waste of time and lack of respect for the other members of this highly respectable forum. I will not continue this discussion and I kindly ask the admins to close this topic as this discussion is the continuation of an very old dispute which is not fair to be continued here. Full stop.)

1. I'm preparing a answer.

2. Some times (and many times for the romanian army) less equipment is better than more equipment.

3. Nobody, you mean yourself? Only you and me take part in this discussion. Or maybe ATM organizes a "web meting" to create an answer my posts. I'm jocking. What about your accusation, on this I'm going to insist.

4. I think that you understand, they are obviously portering a combat and the soldier on the left is the enemy that uses this move, the one defending is the romanian and is displaying how to correctly execute "In sus parati" move. You use this move for all eras not just the inter war era so I'm waiting fore more proof, maybe some scans from the manuals you proudly display, or they don't contain this move? Also the veteran statements only work for WWII what about the other periods?

5. The last email I received from you was on 21 november 2008. Obviously your personal email address is not "cartiergeneral@traditia-militara.ro", I was hoping for something more personal, I'm awaiting something nice for easter.

5a. The wind jackets from the communist era are very different from the ones I have see be used by ATM, but this is just a personal opinion, based on communist regulations and a wind jacket from that era. Can't wait for the pictures.

5b. I was honest, what have I said, for you to consider me evil? I'm referring to original photos and the photos of the reproductions you use. (if you want I can post photos here if you want) Please do post something with A6D, because the readers of this topic are going to think that my reenactment group is perfect... But please don't post a picture from Don Tour 2010, with the boots and the rsr uniforms we already know about those.

6. Why not in public? Is it a shame to be wrong? I admit I'm not perfect and your criticism will not offend me as this is just a passion I do for fun, in my spare time, it's not a job and I have nothing to loose if I'm not perfect. This opinion is also shared buy the colleges from my reenactment group, but I can't speak for them. And from past experience sending personal e-mails to certain ATM members has not ended nice, as there is the risk of these emails to appear in public, or these messages to be circulated among ATM members and added to the ATM archive. This happened to me once, I have send a message to a few members from ATM and then my message was send by the president of ATM, who was not among the recipients, back to me as an attachment to another email that was also sent to other reenactors in Romania, my email contained nothing offensive or insulting to anybody. But it was a private message and it would have been nice that it remained that way, if I would have been asked if it's ok to send my message like that I would have had noting against it.

7. Exactly, from 9 known pictures of soldiers kneeling in 8 a priest is certainly present (visible or it's presence can be deducted: altar present, precise time and location of the photo, civilians attending or the priest is visible in other photos from the same event) in nr 9 the photo is so bad quality we don't even know for sure if the soldiers are romanian. Unfortunately photos stop time for a instant and have narrow field of view.

8. Oops I have to admit I have made a mistake, english is not my first language, and I have mistaken canteens with mess kits. All along I was referring to your use of salad bowls as WWI mess kits (you seem to call them dishes). But from what I know the main romanin army meals was stew or soup that are generally served in bowls not dishes so the romanian mess kit from 1850-1930's was some type of bowl, before WWII a dish was introduced for the romanain mess kit (a copy of the AH from WWI) but this was abandoned during WWII. Maybe you can post a few pictures of romanian soldiers using these "dishes" you talk about, to be able to compare them to the stainless "dishes" (salad bowls in my opinion) ATM is using. I only ask if I don't know something, and I have to know a mistake to recognize it. I'm not going to bother you with other equipment and uniform details ATM is using like: helmets, buttons, gators, tent halves, feather flock, hats, etc.

Took me ages to wright that post so I didn't see what 21inf posted. But I agree with him we are continuing an old discussion that doesn't belong here or on any other public forum. I will stop posting on this topic now. As the discussion is way off topic.