Romanian Fighter Colours 1941-1945, forthcoming book from MMP

The colours in books had an another important meaning. To attract very quick the people in to the history wich otherway could be boring for most of them.
And to give an exemple I quote a book reader comment :

The selection of photographs is excellent and range of colour drawings is superb, you really have opened my eyes as to the beauty of Romanian military aircraft markings

It 's like the colours of the flowers meant to attract bees for polleniser.

I remember when I was younger I didn't liked Bf 109 ( because I'v seen it only in B&w pictures). When I saw for the first time Bf 109 in color profiles ( Fana de l'Aviation) I became inlove with it.
And speaking of modellers how would theyr world looks only in black and white.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on November 19, 2010 11:40 am

But the book is not centered on colour profiles.

Based on the sample pages posted on the web, including the cover, it certainly seems like the focus of the book is clearly on the colour profiles. Otherwise why would the book be called 'Romanian Fighter Colours'?

Gen. Dénes

P.S. I haven't got the book yet, so I cannot comment on it's content.

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 19, 2010 07:14 pm

It is certainly not called 'Romanian Fighter Profiles'

The main point of the book is to describe to modellers and anyone else interested the camouflage colours used on Romanian aircraft.

BUT, the book deals with a lot more than just colours. There is a lot of text in it. There is a lot of good text in it. A historian will find a lot of information in the text.

The reason why, when presenting the book, people post photos of the colour profiles is simple: colour profiles are pleasing to the eye, text is not.

Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on November 19, 2010 10:44 pm

Recently I received a courtesy copy from the Polish Publisher.

The first statement I must say is that no one should form any opinion about this book before he/she can hold it in his/her hands. The few scans posted on the 'net do not do justice to this beautifully produced book.

Following a quick browsing it's clear that this particular book is one of the best ones ever published on Aeronautica Regala Romana (an extra kudos to the authors for using this full, official form of the name of the Rumanian air force, not shying away from the Royal appellation, as many Rumanian authors do).

About the photomaterial, although I already knew about 90%, in the remaining 10% there are several gems I very much enjoyed (like the one on the top of page 138).

The majority of the colour profiles are just like I imagined and very similar to how I instructed the artists of various books I authored to paint the colour profiles like.
I will not engage on how the shades of various camouflage colours may have looked like - with one notable exception, detailed below - to reasons outlined in my previous post.

In one short sentence, going to the point: "Jos cu palaria, domnilor!" (Off the hat in front of the gentlemen!).

This having been said - without having the time to deep dive into the main text, or studying in great detail the profiles - I observed a few very minor issues regarding various details of the texts and markings applied on the aircraft that were missed.

For example, on the He 112, the lettering aft the fuselage access panel 'Racord oxigen' is missing (only the text in front of the panel was given on page 57). On the photo I have of the very same aircraft, No. 29, the 'Michael's Cross' was applied on the fuselage sides without a master stencil. Or, on page 144, the text applied on the flaps actually called: 'NU CALCA ACI'. And so on. But all these are nit-picking, really.

One major question stuck in my head: how did the authors reach the conclusion as what serial number one particular aircraft had, when only photo(s) of the airframe details are known (to me). There are many such cases, just to pick a couple: the '109G featured on page 163, or the famous 'Tumpi-Bumpi Flostomok!' see on page 174. By the way, I was looking for an English translation of this slogan, which I don't really grasp...

Finally, the exception to the colours mentioned above is the interpretation of the artist of the RLM 74 Dunkelgrau, grünlich - the proper German term.
In two reference books on the topic I have on my bookshelves, this particular colour is definitely as dark grey, with a slight green hue, and depicted accordingly.
By contrary, on the upper view drawings featured in the book the colour certainly looks green, which was not the case.
Also, the RLM 75 is known as Mittelgrau, not Grauviolet. Accordingly, it's a pure mid-grey colour, without the purple hue shown in the book. Finally, the RLM 76 Lichtblau, as given by the name, was a light blue, not light grey, as shown in the book [although, there were not less than three different shades of this colour, the RLM 76, 76a (Graugrün) and 76b (Graublau). Perhaps the artist used the latter shade].

However, all these do not detract virtually anything from the value of the book, which should be on the shelves of everyone interested in the colourful history of Aeronautica Regala Romana .

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 15, 2010 12:33 pm

Hi Denes,
I was "in charge" of the names of the colours in German and I compiled the list of colours.
As you can see in the bibliography, we referred to a wide range of titles related to the colours used on German aircraft. I have all of those books on my shelf right now and I can provide you with any information you need in realtion to those colours. All Germamn terms used were taken from those books. I can provide you scans of German official documents (paint scheme charts for the Bf109) that clearly show those names alongside those codes. However, this does not mean that you are entirely wrong - those names you mentioned appear in at least one book by Michael Ullmann but I never saw them in any official German documents. In any case, graugrun, grauviolettt and lichtblau are commonly used names.

I also looked after the English text. I have no idea what Tumpi Bumpi Flostomok means in Romanian, never mind translating it into English. Is may be an onomatopaeic for whizz, bang, splosh!

HTH
Radu

It's not really about the official names (I could also post a scan of what appears to be an excerpt from an original, wartime document), it's about the proper colours .

In the reference works I have, highly regarded in the Luftwaffe research community (the book of Ullmann and the artwork of Sundin), those colours are as I've described them and I believe are the right ones (dark grey and middle gray over light bluish grey) - shades backed up by the colour paint chips included in the aforementioned book.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 28, 2010 07:18 pm

Hi Denes,
As I said, I quoted a number of books that use those names. Please read the books mentioned in in the bibliography for further reference. The books by Kenneth Merrick are regarded even by the harshest critics as the best research on the subject of Luftwaffe colours. These books also include official Luftwaffe documents and swatches of real paint based on official documents.
I also have other books related to Luftwaffe aircraft that use those names. I am in no position to dispute, disregard or dismiss the accuracy of these books.
I will gladly provide you with any data you need in relation to camouflage colours (not only German) - it is one of my main interests and I have a large collection of related books and paint swatches.
HTH
Radu

Hi everyone. I received my copy of this book yesterday and I´m more than pleased with it. Paper and printing quality are top-class and lots of fine photographs and profiles. If i just had time enought to build a model of all those aircrafts.... . Some things caught my attention, so far the bf 109G-2, white 7, flown by Dan Scurtu among the others, have been presented as ARR green/light blue. New info calls colours as RLM 74/76. Opinions ? And IAR 80 M fighters of Gheorghe Gulan and Vasile Stana are shown with plain green upper surfaces when they formerly were thought to have been green / brown camo. Again, opinions ? But all in all , this is wonderful book which will certainly give me numerous moments of pleasure.

Juha, Finland.

Most of the colours for the profiles in the book are based on the new finds in the archivs of Brasov factory.

1. Bf 109G-2 White 7. There is no specific ARR green paint. Romania didn't produce paints before or during the WW2. All the paints were imported before the war from Italy, England and posible France. During the war they were imported from Germany.

The white 7 was among the first Bf 109's received by Grupul 7 Vanatoare in spring 1943 when they were attached to the Udet unit. The Bf 109G were in german markings. Romanian pilots asked to be painted in romanian markings. The germans painted the Bf 109G in a scheme close to the romanian Bf 109E. The paint choosen to cover the standard grey cammo colours was most probably RLM 74 and underside was left in the standard RLM 76.

2. IAR 80 M Gulan and Stana (also IAR81C series 300 to 450) were indeed paint in one colour (dark green) undersurface. The reason is that romanian switched in that perioad (1942-'44) to german paints because the old stock of english paints used for the green/brown cammo (series 1 to 300) were no more available.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on February 02, 2011 02:17 pm

Easter price during April. 120 lei + free shipping!

I received the book two days ago. Just one word: EXCELLENT! Congratulations to the authors, well done!
One question, is the Heinkel 112E pilot from page 67 (color photo), Cpt.Av. Virgil Trandafirescu?
Regards!


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This post has been edited by ionionescu on May 04, 2011 03:14 pm

I also ordered and received this book! Its a great source of visual info, especially. I am not a model builder, but I really like all the profiles of the planes, colors and explanations, alongside all the photos.

I dont know if the authors are on this forum, nonetheless, great job to them! Great quality for this book, the paper, the covers, the way its built, excellent!

I did not read it all, but I did inspect it and 2 observations: 2 photos, not more, could have been enhanced further (tangled with the contrast for example) since they are a bit dark. Another one could have gotten a focus enhancement also. Being a "hobby" photographer I needed to say this. But the book gets excellent rating from me and I am really happy I bought it. I am happy it exists in fact! So again congratulations for the effort of the people involved!

My subjective note:
Also related to photos, mentioning every time that they are part of mr. X collection is kinda irrelevant to the reader and I get the sense its important to the owner of the photo. Basically, it could have been added on a page at the back, to whom these photos belong, like in a table... of course "belong" is not the appropriate word... photos belong to everybody to see, that is why they were made, that is how history "lives". Its irrelevant by whom the specific photo was bought and now is part of... I dont know what collection. For the reader that is not important.

Buy this book if you dont have it - that is my advice!

regards

It is normal practice to include the source of the photo in the caption. You can see that in almost every book of this kind.

Photo collections are a priceless source of information. Without those sources, this book would have been impossible to write.

Radu

I agree that - it is normal to mention to whom the picture belongs now and I agree that the collectors usually "take food from the mouth" to invest in their collection, so the recognition is well deserved and earned.

The only point I wanted to make, though irrelevant to the book itself, more of a personal option that I have seen with other albums - why not have a table at the end of the book and in there have written: photo page 1 - collection Mr. X, photo page 2 - collection Mr. Y and so on.
Its kinda repetitive for a series of pictures to display in the description text - belongs to mr. Z collection...

But besides this personal comment, the BOOK (Album) IS GREAT and IMO it is a Must-Have for all ROMANIAN ww2 enthusiasts. Great quality, fair price for what you get, a lot of visual information and that makes always a difference. I repeat, it is great that this book exists - it is a nice tribute to our Air Force I would say!

This post has been edited by RedBaron on April 28, 2011 09:40 pm

I got my copy few days ago (driven, among others , by largely enthusiastic reviews here and on other similar forums).

It is indeed a lovely piece of work, excellent quality, very good photos ( many of them unknown to me especially regarding foreign fighter aircraft in ARR).

If i'm to knitpick aswell though, one of the few errors i can see is that regarding how many PZL-11F were in the ARR service. It says in the book 70 , but were't there 95 of them built at IAR? (the smallest serial number for the PZL-11F is Nr.51, the highest i can find is Nr.140).

Another thing is ( i might be wrong here of course), but i have the feeling that in a couple of pictures the G-2/G-4 subtypes of the Bf-109G are mixed up (i swear i can see the wing fairings for the bigger main gear tyres and the bigger tail wheel aswell in a picture labelled as Ga-2).

Mind you, maybe the authors know more than we do , i think it must be quite possible that G-4 elements (wings, landing gears etc ) were incorporated into G-2/Ga-2 during overhauls, it wasn't uncommon.

New to me is that the IAR assembled Ga-2 actually saw plenty of combat as opposed to older texts were they were said to be used only for training.

Also very interesting to find about PZL-11/24 glory day, with 16 confirmed kills! ( such daily scores weren't achieved until 1943 by the mighty Bf-109Gs).

If anything the only thing i really wanted to see, but somewhat didn't, is more exclusive IAR-80 photos, i was very eager for that. I know most of them except maybe 2 or 3. Anyway that's just a personal thought.

Byt yes , despite couple of things ( IMHO anyway ) here and there , it is indeed a lovely book ,very well done, kudos for their authors and collaborators. Kindly recommended, you won't be sorry!

PS : Eagerly waiting for Mr. Branzan's IAR-80/81 book now.

This post has been edited by lancer21 on August 08, 2011 09:47 pm