Arad July 3,1944, 8th Air Force

[yugit]

All

On July 3, 1944 the remenants of the 8th Air Force
which survived the Luftwaffe attack at Poltawa
on June 21, 1944 midnight....completed also one
mission from Italy to Arad.

I am attaching the 8th AF aerial photo of Arad
post that attack.

Would appreciate any images of the target
as it looked then from the ground and now
whatever is in there now.

http://img9.imageshack.us/content_round.ph...ionreport25.jpg


http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

The target was the car repair shops and Arad
M/Y

Some 15th AF bombers may have also joined the
8th Air Force to Arad

Thanks
Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on December 17, 2011 01:35 pm

[21 inf]

The building marked with no. 4 is the main railwaystation from Arad. It looks exactly the same today, but the surroundings are totally changed. The bridge on the right side of the photo still exists today, also.

[yugit]

Thank you, can you ID also the rest ?

Alex

[ANDREAS]

Hi yugit,
I am from Arad and I actually live near the area bombed then! I remember my grandmother telling me about the bombing of july 1944 (she recalls that the bombing took place about two months before the Hungarian occupation) and she actually she show me where the bombs fell, because it was close to the house where he lived then!
I have never seen these pictures before and I want to thank you! I try to give you the answers but give me time to figure it up!

[yugit]

Andreas

Thank you and I look forward for your details

Attached a better resolution of a photo shot
by a recon photographer or recon plane
shortly after the withdrawls of the bombers.

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

The building complexes East of the river could be the Arad car repair
works, but I am just guessing, note the significant bomb impacts East
of the building, possibly a clue for not accurate aiming....also
the 3 crates south of the same complex


Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on December 17, 2011 05:06 pm

[romrail]

Hello!

It's the first time when I actually see photos from the bombing of Arad city.

During the last years I was several times in Arad railway complex and I can say that I know the area quite well. Also, several of the people who work in the station, heared about or (in case of the older people) recall the bombing.

Looking at the picture I can point out the following:

1 and 2 - are the actuall lines from the main station. Thus a little changed over the years, the place looks quite the same today.

3 - deffinetely is a the passenger railway cars factory still active today.

4 - is the station passengers building. Repaired after the war, is still used today.

5 - seem to be the station annexe buildings. Today they are still used asnd house a part of the passenger cars technic station (in romanian "revizie de vagoane").

8 - 10 - Thus the city changed much, i presume to be parts of the freight cars factory, still active today.

11 - the bridge that crosses over the lines is still used today.


P.S. the roundhouse near point 3 (the railcars depot) is also used today.

I have several pictures made during the last few years in Arad station, so I can help you by sending a part of them, if you think they are usefull to you.

[ANDREAS]

Hallo Romrail,
Actually in some objectives you're wrong!
1 - I don't know what exactly points the line, since it isn't in the picture! My guess is the water tower which was used for the steam locomotives!
2 - I agree there are the train lines!
3 - I also agree, it's the passenger railway cars factory, nr.2 as it is known today!
4 - I agree, it was repaired many years after the war!
5 - warehouses for the main railway station!
6 and 7 - no clear indication what it points, so...
8, 10 and 11 - I asked an old neighbor who said he believes it was then barracks of an army unit, somewhere in the area, he can't say which one since it changed so much!
12 - the building still exists today, more research is needed!
13 - today it remains the main building of ASTRA VAGOANE SA, the former wagon factory of Arad, still in use today!
14 - my old neighbor said it was a munitions factory back than, now part of the complex ASTRA VAGOANE SA!
15 - same as 12, no ideea!
16 - the arrow who pointed down - it's exactly the location my grandmom talked about, but no ideea what objective it was back then - I vaguely remember about a factory or something ... sorry...
- the arrow who pointed up - it's the former Tricoul Rosu factory, in the communist years the clothing factory, no ideea what was back then, in WW2!

[yugit]

Andreas and Romrail,

Thank you for your continous efforts and I look forward for
your updates and later on photos whenever the time affords.

I am attaching herewith mission reports to enable closer study

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1


http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

http://imageshack.us/g/864/frantic2missionreport9.jpg/


Best Regards
Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on December 18, 2011 02:18 pm

[ANDREAS]

Thank you Alex! I will study them! When I identify something new or change something I said I reply!

[romrail]

Hello again!

Thank you Andreas for your corrections!

On the other hand, i've shared the info about this post on another forum cocerning with the railway history and one of the users there made a photo capture from "google earth", with the same area as the one in yugit's photo.

The result is shown here: http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/Ra...e/aradbomb1.jpg

Thus now we can compare the two pictures and see how the area changed over the years.

This post has been edited by romrail on December 18, 2011 03:16 pm

[yugit]

Romrail and Andreas

Regarding the last photo posted by me which depicting
a rectangular shapped building just East of the river
I came up with cartierul cetatea...which in fact I doubt
hitting the right spot...can you verify for me the google
map coordinates of that building complex ?

Thanks again

Alex

PS: Was AAR and Luftwaffe caught off guard on July 3, 44 at Arad ?
as no AA neither Air to Air resistance showed up.
The historical stuff available citing AAR and Luftwaffe
struggling at Ploesti with 15th AF.

This post has been edited by yugit on December 18, 2011 04:09 pm

[ANDREAS]

Many thanks too Romrail,
It is indeed useful the google earth link you posted, but still I have to ask some older people (neighbors and veterans) to identify the objectives back then!
Alex,
I can't identify the complex of buildings from the image of Mures river, but I will check on google earth, as romrail sugested!
I know that, as today, then was an small airport too, here in Arad, but no ideea if there were formations of German fighter aircraft there. As your documents said there was none... but from what I remember, visiting the city history museum, there were German troops (especially air defense units) near the city in august 1944 (maybe the dislocation occurred following the American bombing, I do not know) and also german aircraft formations in the vicinity... maybe from Hungary or Serbia?

[ANDREAS]

I hope I don't say something stupid, but reporting the image scale (taken from the reconnaissance US plane) to the current scale, the river Mures seems to small... don't you agree? Compare to the buildings and trees... couldn't it be a adjacent channel of the river Mures? Just asking...

[Pooky]

No, in that area wasn't any water channel, so the only possibility is the Mures river...

[yugit]

What I was reffering to was the lack of air support from the nearest
AAR and Luftwaffe airfields and the lack of AA activity of that day
around target area...additionally and for the sake of my research
would be essential to determine what this complex was , worse
case scenario to obtain aprox.coordinates.

While the bombing report stating accurate hits , this complex
was fully missed ....the bombing was executed from 21000-23'000
feet and mit seems that the Arad M/Y was severly hit.

I am unable to overlap google map with the 8th AF recon photo
many features have totally changed.

Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on December 18, 2011 10:07 pm