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> Defeat of a Romanian unit on front 1941-1945, Defeat of a Battalion,Regiment,Division
Victor
Posted: January 25, 2010 09:36 am
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Actually the battle in the Nogaisk Steppe doesn't fit the scenario. The Soviets did not manage either rout or destroy the Romanian units, which overall stood firm, despite being encircled by Soviet armor. Without their determined resistance, the intervention of the German 49th Mountain Corps and, more importantly, of the German 1st Panzer Group, would not have had the same devastating effect.
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ANDREAS
Posted: January 25, 2010 11:28 pm
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Hallo Victor,
My intervention at issue was based totally on the text and the map attached - subject The battle of the Sea of Azov, from the book -The Romanian Armed Forces in World War II - published by the National Military Museum, Archives Department of the General Staff, Meridiane Publishing House, Bucharest, 1995.
Quote from that text - "The fights reached the highest intensity during 27 to 29 September, when the soviet forces came off victorious in breaking the German-Romanian Front in several places. The situation was straightened out by arresting the offensive towards Crimea and by bringing back the german 49. Mountain Corps on the front to the North of Sea of Azov, on the left flank of the romanian Mountain Corps." The text is longer but it is clear that the romanian brigades (nr.2 and 4.) and a german infantry division (nr.170) were beaten by the Soviets, and only the intervention of the german forces (49. Corps and SS-Division (mot.) LAH) restored the situation on the front line. But I don't intend to deny what you say, because this defeat was surely not decisive...
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raevski
Posted: January 26, 2010 11:21 pm
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ January 25, 2010 11:28 pm)
Hallo Victor,
My intervention at issue was based totally on the text and the map attached - subject The battle of the Sea of Azov, from the book -The Romanian Armed Forces in World War II - published by the National Military Museum, Archives Department of the General Staff, Meridiane Publishing House, Bucharest, 1995.
Quote from that text - "The fights reached the highest intensity during 27 to 29 September, when the soviet forces came off victorious in breaking the German-Romanian Front in several places. The situation was straightened out by arresting the offensive towards Crimea and by bringing back the german 49. Mountain Corps on the front to the North of Sea of Azov, on the left flank of the romanian Mountain Corps." The text is longer but it is clear that the romanian brigades (nr.2 and 4.) and a german infantry division (nr.170) were beaten by the Soviets, and only the intervention of the german forces (49. Corps and SS-Division (mot.) LAH) restored the situation on the front line. But I don't intend to deny what you say, because this defeat was surely not decisive...

How do i get a copy of that book, and does it have an English version?
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Victor
Posted: January 27, 2010 07:26 am
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QUOTE (ANDREAS @ January 26, 2010 01:28 am)
Hallo Victor,
My intervention at issue was based totally on the text and the map attached - subject The battle of the Sea of Azov, from the book -The Romanian Armed Forces in World War II - published by the National Military Museum, Archives Department of the General Staff, Meridiane Publishing House, Bucharest, 1995.
Quote from that text - "The fights reached the highest intensity during 27 to 29 September, when the soviet forces came off victorious in breaking the German-Romanian Front in several places. The situation was straightened out by arresting the offensive towards Crimea and by bringing back the german 49. Mountain Corps on the front to the North of Sea of Azov, on the left flank of the romanian Mountain Corps." The text is longer but it is clear that the romanian brigades (nr.2 and 4.) and a german infantry division (nr.170) were beaten by the Soviets, and only the intervention of the german forces (49. Corps and SS-Division (mot.) LAH) restored the situation on the front line. But I don't intend to deny what you say, because this defeat was surely not decisive...

The book you mentioned is mostly a photo album. It does not really go in depth on the battle. I have been planning on updating the article on the website to include more details.

The text is not actually that clear. The front was broken mostly by armored spearheads, which could cause trouble behind the frontlines, but since they lacked the precious infantry support, because the dug in mountain troops held off the Soviet rifle divisions, the situation could not be compared to the Soviet breakthroughs of 1943-45. In 1941, the Red Army had still much to perfect its "deep battle" concept. The prompt intervention of Manstein and of the 1st Panzer Corps turned this potentially dangerous situation into a devastating victory. However, without the resistance of the supposedly "defeated" mountain brigades against the Soviet infantry, the encirclement would have failed, as would have the offensive into Crimea.

But of course, all credit, as usual, goes to the Germans, because they had shinier uniforms and swooped down from the sky to bail out they inept allies. rolleyes.gif
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ANDREAS
Posted: January 27, 2010 09:15 pm
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Yes Victor,
but because in the other books I look to read more details about that battle I found only fewer details, less than in this book, and Manstein memories, including details about this battle, are manifestly unfavourable to romanian troops, I quoted from this book. And as I say the soviet victory was a short-term one, and soon turned into a defeat under the german troops actions.
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