Romanian Army & Holocaust Claims

[inahurry]

You hope too much, AH. :wink:

[inahurry]

For the Jewish organizations is a problem of cash and, in fact, not a problem at all. For those who will pay, that is Romanians of today, it is a very serious problem. I have no objection if, let’s say, citizen Iliescu or citizen Nastase or citizen Dinu Giurescu pay anything they want to anyone they want from their own personal assets.

[dragos]

Persecutions and purges of Jews in Romania are documented and eye-witnessed. This is undeniable. What can be discussed is the scale of this actions.

My grandmother and her sister were in Odessa during the war, and they saw the ghetto guarded by Romanian soldiers, where the poor people were literally dying of starvation and disease.

[Victor]

QUOTE

Instead, we have bizarre photos of the 'death trains' at Iasi, where instead of Romanian gendarmes, you see typicall Soviet policemen (that in 1941!!!!!!!! :loool: ), with Soviet visor caps, you see naked ( :question:  :rollroll: ) corpses near the wagons... And you hear absurde stories that 1500 Jews died in trains, on a distance of 20km (Iasi - Podul Iloaiei)!!!! But moron, Romanian prisoners were stuked in cattle wagons the time of two weeks, in Siberian vacation after Stalingrad and after 23 August 1944! And very few of them ever died on the ride!!! And I fail to see how those Soviet wagons were more confortable than the Romanian brand...  Cattle wagons cannot kill cattle, as they cannot kill human beings! Use your logic!

The death trains episode was mentioned in official army reports. The trains went as far as Calarasi IIRC, not just to Podu Iloaiei.

[aerialls]

Wouldn't it be better to call it a Moldavian Holocaust?

Even Eminescu has a part of the guilt...the most shovinistic poet weever had and he was unequalled. When you think that Hitler started this bussiness in 42, I wonder from who he got the ideas.

*translated by moderator*
*aerialls this is not the first time I have to translate your posts. The Forum rules are clear.*

[Indrid]

QUOTE

nu ar fii mai bine sa se numeasca holocaust moldovenesc? chiar si eminescu are o parte din vina... cel mai sovin poet care l'am avut vreodata, si e de fapt stea neegalata. Cand te gandesti ca hitler a inceput afacerea asta .. prin 42, ma intreb de la cine s'a cam inspirat baiatul.

what the hell is this? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
somebody should translate itt so that the foreifg forumites could raise an eyebrow too

:nope:

[inahurry]

Jews persecution, anti-Semitic laws is one thing, Romanian made genocide is another. And the big rush is to extort money from the Romanians. All they needed was a servile government, control over what is extracted from archives and selected historians to “arbitrate” an “academic” board and, strangely, once the known beforehand conclusions are drawn they will automatically trigger political and financial consequences on a dramatic scale.

Romanians of today are in no way responsible of events that happened long time ago. What is happening is simple obedience before a force that is perceived as extremely powerful, a blend of cowardice and hypocrisy that has nothing to do with either study of history or healing of old wounds. On the other side, the extortionist can’t invoke any moral ground. The trick is to dissociate the extortion from the academic studies and hence the rage when the connection is bluntly exposed.

The purpose of the agitation isn’t to bring forth don’t know what overlooked documents, the purpose is to prepare the public opinion for the next phases. There will be lot of publicity for the Romanian “crimes” (there will be made no distinction between a regime and the Romanian nation, classic guilt through association scenario) followed by a lot of discretion for the huge amounts of money Romania will have to pay. This is relatively simple as the control over Romanian mass media is almost complete (an important part of this control is in Jewish hands – examples are notorious – but the obedience of almost the entire mass media is guaranteed anyway).

The other strategic goal is the extension of what already happened elsewhere (and even in Romania on a smaller scale), the known conclusions will open the road for the same kind of anti-democratic regulations enforced in Germany, Canada, France, etc. (with the notable exception of USA, for now), countries where brutal, open persecution of anyone who dares to think differently has become a reality. When “truth” needs police and prisons to be protected from intellectual inquiry all is pretty clear.

[aerialls]

ok..sorry for my imbecile post, but this is not what i meant.... I was not talkin' about Eminescu givin' ideas to hitler gezz... Whatever...as you know maybe ... the antijewish sentiment was more higher in Moldova then anywere else before ww2... And i was just wondering why... and debate on some of the causes.

[Geto-Dacul]

Because Jews were more numerous in Moldova than anywhere else in Romania! Until the 40's, Jews were 50% of the population of Iasi for example. And most of those Jews did not enter legally in Romania, so the anti-Jewish sentiment was natural from the local host nation.

QUOTE

the antijewish sentiment was more higher in Moldova then anywere else before ww2...

What is shameful, is that you accuse the Romanian Moldavians of Holocaust, and you nearly qualified Eminescu like a hitlerite (or Hitler like an Eminescian???) and a bandit! :mad:

[aerialls]

QUOTE

)!!!! But moron, Romanian prisoners were stuked in cattle wagons the time of two weeks, in Siberian vacation after Stalingrad and after 23 August 1944!

don't know... but 200.000 Rumanians from NW Transilvania were also transported in cattle wagons in the south... and nobody died.
how come an such huge figure?
I also got to mention that the figure is extracted from the registers of the jewish centers existing in Rumania at that date.

--------

Getu... I do not qualified Eminescu has an hitlerite! I was an great poet indeed but he was also an nationalist. I was refering to the obvieus antijewish sentiment in Moldavia at that date and I have used an bad retorix! "I have eated some words" I should have been more explicit. / Sorry.

[aerialls]

QUOTE

Because Jews were more numerous in Moldova than anywhere else in Romania! Until the 40's, Jews were 50% of the population of Iasi for example. And most of those Jews did not enter legally in Romania, so the anti-Jewish sentiment was natural from the local host nation.

and i think you should edit that! I don't think this was an issue.

wateva
i guess i should eat my lame excuses towards Eminescu too.

[dragos]

Several days ago I saw on TV a talk-show about Holocaust, with the participation of Romanian academicians Dan Berindei, Constantin Balaceanu Stolnici and the ambasador of Israel in Romania. The Israel's official specified a number of 200.000 Jews being victims of Romanian Holocaust. Romanian academicians disputed this number, as the commision assigned to research the archives regarding the Holocaust did not make a report. Dan Berindei specified that in Romania did not exist a real Holocaust, as it was in the territories administered by Germany, and a better formula for what had happened in Romania would be: "the wing of Holocaust has passed over Romania".

[Najroda]

QUOTE

Several days ago I saw on TV a talk-show about Holocaust, with the participation of Romanian academicians Dan Berindei, Constantin Balaceanu Stolnici and the ambasador of Israel in Romania. The Israel's official specified a number of 200.000 Jews being victims of Romanian Holocaust. Romanian academicians disputed this number, as the commision assigned to research the archives regarding the Holocaust did not make a report. Dan Berindei specified that in Romania did not exist a real Holocaust, as it was in the territories administered by Germany, and a better formula for what had happened in Romania would be: \"the wing of Holocaust has passed over Romania\".

How did the Israeli ambasador react to that?

[dragos]

She kept saying that the Holocaust in Romania existed and it should not be mixed with the persecution of other minorities (like gipsies'). She accented Transdnestra, at the comments concerning the Holocaust inside Romanian borders.

[Najroda]

QUOTE

She kept saying that the Holocaust in Romania existed and it should not be mixed with the persecution of other minorities (like gipsies'). She accented Transdnestra, at the comments concerning the Holocaust inside Romanian borders.

What did she mean by not mixing the holocaust with perscution of others? Do Jews, Gypsies, Romanians etc. not have the same colour of blood? It is true that the persecution and destrutcion of Jews was planned and well orchestrated, but the same is true for Gypsies, Homosexuals, Jehovah witnesses, disables people, or "just" political oponents. As far as I am concerned it's all part of the holocaust.

But she's right about the holocaust in Romania. It occured there, as it did in any other country allied to or occupied by Germany. Yes, it was mostly the Germans who orchestrated it. But we didn't exactly give them a hard time, save one or two exceptions, like the February strike in Amsterdam. But that not save 90% of Dutch Jews from perishing.

I get a very bad taste in my mouth when people want to bagatelize the extent of the holocaust, especially in countries who practically invited the Germans like Romania and Hungary.