How good is the TR 85-M1 tank?

How useful is this tank because they are easy targets for ATGM teams especially if they have modern missiles like the Javelin, Spike, TOW-2B, Bill-2, Kornet and others.

those look more like smoke grenade launchers

you are probably right toppy

Alexc,

maybe. but you can't win a war with atgm's against modern tanks. you heard lebanese prime minister Siniora choking on tears and saying to reporters that Israel's army set back Lebanon several decades back from the recent invasion. lebanese infrastructure is gone, hundreds thousands displaced civilians and maybe a thousand dead. hezbollah won't be able to pull something like they just did until the next 25 years. I guess we have different theories on what and army should be. if prolonged guerrila style war with huge civilian casualties is what you want it's fine by me. this is for countries who can't afford to buy shit. but romania is not THAT poor.

I'm not going to discuss the effectiveness of ATGM's again. if you care to read what I wrote in the other thread maybe I will respond to you.

ps: sorry Victor

This post has been edited by deadmanwalking on August 13, 2006 04:37 pm

No deadmanwalking you got me wrong we should follow the Canadian model.

what's that?

Aren't they scrapping the Leopard C2 (Leo 1A5) and replace them with the Striker Mobile Gun System?

Rather like the Peruvian T55M1 Leon:

http://miarroba.com/foros/ver.php?foroid=3...d=4452908&pag=3

I live in Montreal and I had no idea.

yeah, that's an excellent idea.

can you tell me more about the gun?

Here's a link

http://www.deagel.com/pandora/m1128-stryke...pm00095003.aspx

Or something better a CV-90 with a 120mm gun

http://www.deagel.com/pandora/cv90120_pm00019008.aspx

Rather like the Peruvian T55M1 Leon:

http://miarroba.com/foros/ver.php?foroid=3...d=4452908&pag=3

not bad...
considering the tr-85m1's main gun has an optimal penetration of 450mm in terms of KE..... we might as well have it fire only HE rounds and ATGM from main gun, like BMP-3. like someone else said in this thread, what's the point of having excellent fire control system that enables the bizon to hit targets at 4000m if it has serious problems defeating modern tanks at point blank

Romania needs modern ATGMs. Whether they'll use them with guerilla forces or with conventional forces, that's a second and mostly "to-be-seen" issue.

Romania has good ATGM missiles. Unless it eluded you guys...
Spike ER and SpikeLR are in Romanian usage. Also Maliutka 2T has also a good penetration >900 mm RHA (is the improved version with a the Tandem warhead from Milan 2 I think)

The Stryker MGS would be a disaster for Romania. It has truly awful maneuverability and off-road capabilities. My understanding is that the TR85 was adapted to local (Romanian) terrain? I would guess that with challenging terrain to begin with, any wheeled MGS would be a failure.

One thing about the antitank systems mentioned: Antitank gunners, whether tube or rocket, are generally dead the moment they fire. Of course, it may take a few seconds to actually kill them, but their lack of armor protection and mobility is a death sentence, unless you are fighting from a built-up area and the other guys' armor is unsupported by infantry.

Lots of folks are reacting to a few pictures on the news of smoking tanks. Most of these folks are completely ignorant of tanks, other than said pictures or book knowledge. Used correctly, the tank is alive and well.

And 4000 meters is a good range for the 100mm gun on a TR85M1 to obliterate an ATGM team, or an infantry fighting vehicle or wheeled AFV.

This post has been edited by 120mm on August 14, 2006 11:14 am

We have? I only knew about AT-3s and AT-4s.

one more thing .. Soviets got gun fired ATGM because of the lack of precision of their FCS. So they compensated by firing gided missiles for targets abobe 2000 m.

BTW Israel manufacture the LAHAT gun fired ATGM we might get them