Reproductions

As more and more reproductions are being made, I think that this Forum should have a new topic solely for the discussion, critiquing and exposing reproductions as they come on the market. The purpose is to educate the collecting community and to make it more difficult for those who want to ruin the collecting interests and market of Romanian medals, orders, and militaria for personal greed by fabricating and selling these fakes. This Forum is not here to slander the dealer but rather critique and educate the collector. I invite everyone to post here regarding fakes, reproductions, married pieces and share their opinions in these matters. Perhaps we can consolidate all previous discussions from other topics onto this Topic Title.

Good idea, RUC. Such a dedicated thread, with detailed explanations and expertese, is very welcome.

Perhaps the section's moderator could move the pertinent posts (including my latest one) over here, to consolidate the topic.

Gen. Dénes

I propose to just post links to the respective posts. Otherwise, the older posts will precede REGAL UNIFORMA COLLECTOR's and the topic will look odd.

Denes' post with fake Order of the Star, of Carol I and of Fernidand I: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...indpost&p=47175

Link syntax edited by host

This post has been edited by Carol I on March 02, 2006 04:08 pm

Good idea.

I think this topic should also include dubious, modern-made, medal bars, even if these bars are made using genuine awards.

Here is a dubious bar, somebody sent me this pic and asked for an opinion about its originality:


This post has been edited by dragos03 on March 01, 2006 06:54 pm

I think it's a modern-made one. I haven't seen Romanian medal bars with japanese orders. The one near the Iron Cross is the japanese Order of the Rising Sun 4th class.

Air Observer - Brightly painted center shield. Excess metal slag dot in upper right wing indicates cast piece.

This post has been edited by REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR on March 02, 2006 04:46 am

They have the very same at the MMN shop, but there it's clearly sold as reproduction, for as low as 35 RON (350,000 ROL)

Shouldn't the manufacturers of modern reproductions stamp their products, on the reverse, with a note indicating the origin and status (e.g., REPRODUCTION done by X.Y.)? That would be the fair move, so second-time buyers could not be fooled.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on March 02, 2006 02:28 pm

That would indeed be fair. Unfortunately, the sad thing is that some of these items are not manufactured to pass as modern reproductions, but rather as 'genuine items'. In this case, a "COPY" or "REPRODUCTION" stamp would 'ruin' the effort. And this affects not only the first buyer, but the subsequent ones as well, as some items are then honestly passed as genuine items.

Most Romanian fakes are made strictly for the money and to deceit collectors. They are not made as collector copies. There is no money incentive if the pieces are marked as copies.

Opinions anyone ?

Shouldn't it have King Mihai's cipher if it is supposed to be a 1944 model?

The 1916 model was never issued with swords. The law of 1938 made provisions for a model with swords and there are some references to some badges being manufactured (although not issued). It is not clear (to me) though whether the 1938 model was supposed to use the cipher of King Ferdinand or that of King Carol II. The blue cross of the order with Carol II's cipher has been used as decoration on the batons of the Romanian marshals.



Furthermore, the 'rough' manufacture of the piece under question makes it even more suspicious.

It is supposedly a WW1 piece. I beleive this one to be a copy. Gilting is too fresh and enamel is too dark for a WW1 piece. What really stands out is that it has swords. WW1 pieces were issued without swords. I too have heard a story that approxiamately 5 WW1 crosses with swords were either commissioned by King Carol or were strictly proof pieces and made by Henry Weiss around the 1938 date. These were silver, hallmarked, and gold gilt and were given unofficially by King Carol to some of his Generals. I do not know the full story. This piece is not one of them. I beleive this one to have been made by a jeweler in Bucharest 8-10 years ago. It may have started out as a 1941 or 1944 original piece and ended up modified as this.

This post has been edited by REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR on March 07, 2006 01:31 pm

At least part of the "story" is true. The following orders are both Weiss marked and in silver. I have also seen a 1916 First Class with swords that appears to be of 1930's vintage.