THE ROMANIAN INTER-ALLIED VICTORY MEDAL OF WW1, OFFICIAL AND UNOFFICIAL IN MY COLLECTION

this post is an attempt to display the variations in the Romanian Inter-Allied Victory Medal of W. W. 1 (in my collection) the medal has been described in detail in the book “The Inter-Allied Victory Medals of World War 1.” by Alexander J. Laslo. Pages 79 - 82.

Designer: Constantin Kristesko.

Manufacturer: Unknown. Probably a commercial firm in Paris.

Number Issued*: Approximately 300,000.

* Applicable to the Official type. Number of Unofficial medal issues not known.

Unofficial makers to numerous to know.

Basic design showing to the front a standing “Victory” with a downward pointing sword held in the left hand point of the sword behind the right foot. The right foot standing above the rim with a fold of the dress hanging over the edge.

Rear: Heavy chain with names of ten of the Allied Countries on the links, starting at the 9 o’clock position with the name ROMANIA, ITALIA, FRANTA, ANGLIA, BELGIA, GRECIA, JAPONIA, SERBIA, *RIC* and CHINA. In the centre of the medal a double edged battle axe standing upright to the left laurel leaves and to the right oak leaves, the words MARLE RAZEBOI over PENTRU CIVILIZATIE. / THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILISATION.

The medals in my picture show from left to right:

Medal 1 & 2: Official Type, this comes with the designer name lightly impressed on the rear next to the link of the chain with the word “JAPONIA.”

Diameter: 36mm for both and ball mount for ribbon ring, and 4mm thick

Medal 3: Unofficial Type 1, nearly the same as the official but has not got the designers name next to the JAPONIA link.

Diameter: just a shade over 36mm, and has a ball ribbon ring mount, and 4mm thick

Medal 4: Unofficial Type 2, not being as refined or detailed as the official types, no designer name, in the countries names the “N” letter has been inverted and the “C” letter has replaced the letter “G” so the names read: ROMAИIA, FRAИTA AИCLIA, JAPOИIA, and CHIИA. And the letter “G” in the names are replaced with a “C” and read ANCLIA, BELCIA, CRECIA, There also shows a defined rim to the edge of the medal.

Diameter: just a shade short of 38mm, and ball ribbon ring mount, and 3mm thick. Metal types varies.

Medal 5: Unofficial Type 3a, there is a pronounced difference in the wings of “Victory” and both the right foot of the figure and the robe drape over the rim. With regards the rear the connecting links of the chain between the links with names are very thin, the words are still spelt with a “C” instead of “G”, but the letter “N” is the Roman version as opposed to the Cyrillic version, next to the “JAPONIA” link is part of a leaf in the place of the designer name on the original.

Diameter: 36mm and the ribbon ring mount is cylindrical, the medal is a shade over 4mm thick.

Medal 6: Unofficial Type 3a, (Cast Type) very rough appearance above the right wing tip of “Victory” can be found a molding flaw, both the foot and robe blend into the rim, good detail to the rear but a rough appearance to the metal, the country names again feature a “C” instead if a “G”, but the letter “N” is the Roman version as opposed to the Cyrillic version, and again a leaf design protrudes into the space where the designer name is found upon the original.

Diameter; is between 35 - 36mm, the ribbon ring mount is cylindrical, and the medal is 4mm thick.

All thickness measurements are taken from the centre of the medal between front and back.

GENERAL INFORMATION ON THE ROMANIAN VICTORY MEDAL:

The Romanian Victory Medal was established by King Ferdinand I on the 20th of July 1921 with High Decree No. 3.390/921. Award criteria for the Victory medal were issued in Ministry of War Decision No. 847 of 3rd of August 1921.

According to High Decree No. 3.390/921, all personnel who effectively took part in the fighting at anytime between 28th August 1916 and 31st of March 1921 were eligible for the Victory Medal.

The late date was probably intended to recognize operations following WW1 which lead to the annexation of Transylvanian region of Hungary.

Decision No. 847 listed the categories of personnel eligible for the Victory medal. "No minimum period of service was imposed, however entitlement was limited to combatants and to those traditionally non-combatant role directly related and contributed to the fighting at the front or from a rear area, such as aircraft mechanics, stretcher bearers, surgeons, hospital orderlies, and Chaplains.

Commanders of Artillery units, Divisions, Corps, and Armies, their Chiefs-of-Staff and Staff Officers, who performed duty at the front, while falling somewhere between combatants and non-combatants, also were eligible.

Officers decorated with Order of Military Virtue, automatically qualified, yet military attaches were specifically excluded."

Decision No 847 emphasized that “personnel outside these categories were not entitled to the Victory Medal, and that the greatest care will be taken to ensure that those that were remote from the fighting were not recommended.”

The medals hung from a "Rainbow" ribbon of a style peculiar to the Romanian design, however variations have been encountered, I personally believe that the official medals came from France with a ribbon, while the unofficial medals were supplied with a ribbon of local manufacture, however I have no documentation to back this up, so it must remain as conjecture.

THE UNOFFICIAL VICTORY MEDAL:

These variations of the unofficial Victory Medals may have been prompted by a provision in Decision No, 847 which allowed veterans, after obtaining the Authorizing Brevet, to wear a facsimile Victory Medal, purchased from a commercial source until the official versions was sent and received by the veteran.

Given this sanction, it has been speculated that several military outfitters began to produce the Victory Medal in advance of the official striking to meet a perceived demand among the military veterans.

Lacking an official example to model their version on these suppliers had to resort to a drawing, or drawings or more likely a written description of the proposed medals design, which ultimately lead to a variation in the dies and made the refined product more difficult to achieve.

This and the inferior manufacturing techniques, and the rush to complete the medals resulted in some very crude interpretations and models being produced.

It is known that large numbers of Romanian WW1 veterans bought these unofficial medals including some lacking the Authorizing Brevet, others never bothered to obtain the official medals when available and added the unofficial medals to their medal bars where they remain to this day.

I have in my possession a bar for over 25 years service to a Romanian officer which has an Unofficial Victory Medal mounted upon it.

Accompanying the Victory Medal was the “Brevet” or award paper which normally measures 21.2 cm by 34.5cm.

The first picture shows Front of Medals 1 - 2 - 3.


The second picture shows the rear of Medals 1 - 2 - 3.



The third picture shows the front of medal 4 - 5 - 6



The fourth picture the rear of medals 4 - 5 - 6



THE RIBBON:[B]

SAMPLE OF ORIGINAL ROMANIAN VICTORY MEDAL RIBBON:

This section of ribbon is the one I believe was issued with the Official medals that were made in France.


This section of ribbon is one, I believe of the locally made Romanian ribbons that accompanied an Unofficial Type 1 Victory Medal in my collection, the ribbon is folded to the rear in the customary way of Romanian ribbons with hook and eye.





Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Dragos03, with response to your post on another forum, Can you confirm the information with regards the design and proposition of the Victory Medals and the Romanian King??

As Mr. Alexander J. Laslo Author of the book "The Inter-Allied Victory Medals of World War 1, Second Revised Edition", makes no mention of this.

From his book it states, page 1: " The story of the (Inter-Allied) Victory Medal began as early as January 1917 when Great Britain recommended to France and Belgium, and both governments agreed, that a common war medal should be developed after the war. Reffered to as the "Allies Medal", this proposal was an outcome of a British committee appointed in 1916 to consider the whole question of War Medals."

"The French called the British Allies Medal the "International War Commemorative Medal", and a proposal to create this medal was introduced in the Chamber of Deputies on the 5th March 1918 by Deputy Bouilloux-LaFont.

The matter was tabled until the 17th of December 1918, when Deputy A. Lebey proposed to the Chamber a law establishing a medal to observe the Allies' Victory. In making his proposal, Deputy Lebay reminded the Chamber that all great events in the history of France were occasioned by the striking of a commemorative medal.

Because of French interest Marshal Foch carried to the Paris Peace Conference the idea of a unique commemorative medal that would be awarded to all Allied combatants.

On the 24th of January 1919, the Supreme Council, consisting of the ranking delegates of the five chief powers; that is the United States of America, Great Britain, France, Italy, and Japan, met in the room of the French Foreign Minister, Mr. Pichon, at the Quai d'Orsay in Paris.

At this session, the Supreme Council first convened as the Supreme War Council.

In attendance were President Woodrow Wilson and the Premiers and Foreign Ministers of the five chief powers as well as Marshal Foch, Field-Marshal Haig, General Pershing, General Diaz, and the generals of the Versailles War Council, including General Wilson, Belling, Bliss, and Robilant.

During the meeting of the Supreme War Council, Marshal Foch read the following proposal:

" I have the honour to propose to the Supreme War Council of the Allies that those who have fought in the Great War, of all the Allied Nations alike, should receive one identic commemorative medal. This glorious emblem, worn by them in all parts of the world, would help to maintain among them a feeling of close fellowship which, after fortifying our armies on the battlefield, will assure during peace, by the bond of common memories, the greatness of the Associated comrades."

President Wilson approved the idea and inquired whether the intention was that each government strike a medal of the same kind. To this question Marshal Foch replied that each government should agree to issue to their troops the same medal on the same ribbon.

The Supreme War Council then agreed to recommend for approval of the governments concerned the issue of an identical medal and ribbon to all the troops of the Allied and Associated Powers who had fought in the war.

On the 18th, 19th and 21st of March 1919, an Inter-Allied Commission met at the Quai d'Orsay in Paris, to formulate the medal agreed to at the 24th of January 1919 meeting of the Supreme War Council.
Specific terms of reference were the name, ribbon, and design of the medal and the principles for its award.

All proceedings were conducted in the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the office of Mr. William Martin, Director of Protocol. William Martin, who was the senior French representative to the Commission, was also chosen to be the Commission Chairman.

The nations represented on the Commission besides France, were Belgium, Great Britain, Greece, Italy, Japan, Poertugal, Serbia, Siam and the USA

POINTS OF NOTE FROM THAT MEETING:

The name originally proposed for the medal, the Allies Medal, was discarded by the commission because the name excluded the USA., which was an Associated Power. Moreover, the Central Powers could legitimately produce their own "Allies Medal".
The Commission then discussed the various names for the medal, including:

"The Inter-Allied and Associated Medal",

"The International Medal of the Great War",

and "The Medal of The Great War."

Finally, Commandant Purnot, one of the French representatives, suggested the "Victory Medal." this name was unanimously adopted by the commission because it was short and the one title for a war medal the Germans could not copy.

[B]Colonel Mott[/B] (USA) is credited with proposing, after much discussion on the subject, the double rainbow suspension ribbon.

The British delegation simply state that the rainbow ribbon would remove any need to have national colours on the ribbon."

End of quotation.

In 1916 Romania was just entering the War, so if we take the British Committee proposal in 1916 this would predate King Ferdinand’s proposal I presume, unless some papers or evidence can state otherwise.

Also their was no International competition to design a single Inter-Allied Victory medal, each country was advised to follow the basic guidelines, but, there was certainly individual competitions in each country for a national design.

Japan and Siam (Thailand) could not include a "Winged Victory" in their design as this form had no meaning in their Ideology, so Japan chose a representation of one of its "Gods" and Siam likewise.

The correct name of the designer is Constantin Cristescu.

The manufacturer of the "official" medals was Artus Bertrand, Paris.

I read an article published in BSNR, which claims that king Ferdinand proposed the medal and its first design. The source for the article was the king's personal diary. I don't know if the information is correct.

On a type 2 unofficial medal this appears as "*ICA", hence we can assume that the ending of this name was "*RICA".

A link to a page on the WWI Victory Medals: http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/victory-medal.htm

Hallo Dragos & Carol 1.

with regards your posts:

The name is spelt with a "K" on the official Victory medal and in the book, and thats the way I will leave it in my Post. When he moved to live in Paris it probably got changed.

Page 81, The Inter-Allied Victory Medal of World War 1. (second Revised Edition) by Alexander J. Laslo:

"The last name of the designer of the Rumanian Victory Medal, "Kristesko", appears in shallow incised letters on the reverse of the official version on the medal. Constantin Kristesko was an obscure sculptor and Rumanian emigre who worked in Paris.

The fact that the design was executed in Paris, the use of the French style ball suspension device, and the presence of the word "BRONZE" on the edge of some specimens are indicators that the official version was struck in Paris, possibly by the firm of M. Delande.

However it is almost certain that the Unofficial Types 2, 3, and 3a, were struck in Rumania by unknown commercial firms. The Rumanian National Mint, the Monetaria National, was not in being at the time the Victory Medal was struck."

RICA is the correct assumption for the *ICA. it being the shortened version for Costa Rica

The link to "Digger History" while being very informative has lots of mistakes with regards some of the medals listed on other pages, with incorrect identification and descriptions( if you look at the Victory medal page you can see I supplied him with a correct picture for the Brazilian Victory Medal.)

Thank you for your contributions to this subject, it all helps for a better understanding of the history of the medals and the people who designed, made, and wore them.

Kevin in Deva.

I've just joined this site and I'm interested to pick the brains of all of you experts as I have a different variation of this medal.

I collect WW1 interallied victory medals and all of the previous variations I have could be found in the excellent and indespensible Laslo book. I also thank the New Connaught Ranger for his posting.

However, I have recently bought a variation of the Romanian medal that does not fit into any of those mentioned by Laslo. At first I thought it might be a copy so I took it to a dealer I trust for a second opinion. These are his views:

The medal is well struck (not cast) and seems to show natural ageing of at least 50 years or so. It has the ball suspension and freely moving ring. The detail is sharp, but of a rather naive style compared to the subtle detail of the Laslo official type. The reverse shows the makers name Kristesko in sharp lettering, but it is raised rather than incised as Laslo states the Official type should be. In the spelling of the countries listed on the reverse, there are no C/G substitutions or reverse N's as on some of the unofficial types. There do not seem to be any makers markings on the rim or elsewhere on the medal.

The dealer's conclusions were that it was not a copy, or if it were a copy it was a very expensive, struck copy which would be rather unusual. The fact that the name is raised rather than the much easier to perform incising means that someone went to a lot of trouble and expense to make this medal. He concluded it may be another official /unofficial type, a reissue or a very expensive copy.

Has anyone seen one of the variations before and knows what it is?

many thanks

Rob

Hallo Rob

Many thanks for your post, I have seen one, exactly such as you describe, and it was being offered for sale a few weeks ago on ebay.

I have noticed while handeling the Romanian Victory medal here in Romania at various shows even the variations have variations, however nearly all fall into the guidelines of what is in Mr. Laslo 2nd Edition book.

It is possible that this is indeed another variation, but I would like to get my hands on one localy here in Romania to see first.

As far as I know, there is no known list of manufacturers of the Romanian Unofficial ones so to pin this mystery variant down might take a while.

There are two types of REPRO Romanian being offered in the "West" usualy on ebay, one by an English dealer from Birmingham (home of English medal fabrication) who declares them for exactly what they are REPRO and another similar type being offered from Belgium usualy with the word original in the description.
The British Repro is a choclate brown patina chemicaly applied, the Belgian comes with a more Brassy Gold-Gilt look.

Of course any members who might have more information are welcome to add their thoughts alongside mine.

Kevin in Deva

As I recall, there are around 12 different Romanian variations of this medal. All different manufacturers.

Can you post an image of your medal, Rob?

Hallo Gentlemen

This is the one I think he is talking about, this one was up for auction recently on Ebay USA





Kevin in Deva.

This post has been edited by Carol I on September 25, 2006 10:03 pm

Hi All,
Kevin is right, he has shown a picture of the version that I have. It shows well the rather naive style of the obverse and the sharp, but raised lettering of the makers name on the reverse. What it doesn't show are the marks on the edge which seem to show that the medal was struck and not cast. It is an odd medal as on first glance you think it must be a simple copy, but on closer inspection it seems to be more than that. After all, why go to all the expense of putting the makers name in raised lettering?

Apart from the Laslo book, are there any other places one can find references to the other variations of the medal, particularly if there are around 12 variations as the 'Regal Uniforma Collector' states.

best wishes,

Rob

Hallo Rob,

I too believe it to be an Unofficial variation and not a copy or Repro, to my knowledge nobody has written a book on the Romanian variations, and Laslo's books 1st & the 2nd Revised Edition are considered to be the bible of World Victory medals.

Maybe the members here could post the ones in their collections for comparison.

Kevin in Deva

Rob, Kevin and Co.

This is a modern copy - Mike Shank has been selling fakes of the entire WW1 Interallied Victory series on ebay for years. Likewise, probably all his other medals are fakes as well.

Rgds,

More info on these fake WW1 Interallied Victory Medals by Mike Shank :

http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?p=21226