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MMM |
Posted: December 16, 2008 05:24 am
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General de divizie Group: Members Posts: 1463 Member No.: 2323 Joined: December 02, 2008 |
Of course we DO see this clearly now; back then, I really doubt there were any Romanian generals able to devise such a maneuver - and even less troops able to carry it on
What you describe is a maneuver as old as the Carthaginian army, if I remember correctly - but they were "barbarians", not generals instructed at St. Cyr! -------------------- M
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Victor |
Posted: December 16, 2008 07:48 am
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
It is difficult to plan ahead such an intricate ambush, because this assumes one knows beforehand where the enemy will attack, but the tactic mentioned by Hannover was essential in defeating any tank assault on infantry positions. And this happened many times on the Eastern front, not only by AT guns crews, but also, maybe even more often, by tank hunter teams, which are very mobile and could do some serious damage in close quarters against tanks without infantry support.
Dealing with a massive armored breakthrough, whose aim is simply to pass through the infantry line and push on as much as possible, is a very different matter. TO do that one needs motorized/armored reserves that could effectively counter the enemy spearhead. In this case one can think of the ambush described by Imperialist, provided the defense has enough means to prepare ambushes on each major communication axis. MMM, to your surprise, the Romanian officers knew what to do and for many hours the 13th and 14th Divisions held the Soviets at bay, by separating the tanks from the supporting infantry. Eventually, lagging behind schedule, the Soviets decided to simply pass through the Romanian infantry line with the tanks and cavalry and push on the advance, while the infantry remained to struggle against the Romanians. Again, to your surprise, many fought to the last momment much like captain Danjou's men at Camerone. These men died in a frozen steppe thousands of kilometers away from home fighting a war that was not theirs. They deserve at least a candle to be lit in their memory from time to time, not cheap jokes. |
MMM |
Posted: December 16, 2008 09:28 am
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General de divizie Group: Members Posts: 1463 Member No.: 2323 Joined: December 02, 2008 |
RE: Victor
I did NOT intend to joke about the performances of the Romanian infantry divisions. Unfortunately, judging ONLY after the result, we didn't do much. It is also clear - from the sheer number of the victims on both sides - that the Romanians put up a good fight, but they didn't have a real chance. As it was seen, the "reservoir" of Soviet infantry was quite endless. As for the example of Romanians who knew what to do, I'm sure there is at least a counter-example of an officer who did NOT know for each one who did! Why else would the things have happened like that??? And, again, I have only respect for the many soldiers, NCO's and officers who gave their lives for Romania (at least, that was what they were told), regardless where and alongside which ally. I see no big difference between Don and Hron, in that matter. -------------------- M
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Victor |
Posted: December 17, 2008 03:19 pm
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
Off topic discussion was moved to a new topic: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=4994
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Victor |
Posted: December 26, 2008 03:27 pm
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
Getting back to the original subject, in the autumn of 1942 the following instructions were given to the 1st Armored Division, and possibly to the other units of the 3rd Army:
1. the 75mm AT guns are to be used against targets up to 700m 2. the smaller caliber AT guns are to be used against targets up to 300m 3. the AT weapons must be placed in front of the infantry. Positions on dominant heights or ridges are to be avoided. It is preferably to place them in small valleys, on slopes or irregular ground. 4. the gun must fire only if the trajectory is oblique relative to the axis of advance of the enemy tanks to counter the sloped armor of the newer Soviet models 5. the AT gun must be dug in properly The instructions were given by the German command. |
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