Romanian Army insulted on a franch forum ww2

http://deuxiemeguerremondia.forumactif.com...-front-de-l-est


And they use a photo I have posted on this forum, with mention of the source, to insult my grand-father memory and all romanian army which has fighted at Odessa. I don't think it is OK, at all.

This post has been edited by Daniel Focsa on August 07, 2012 06:46 am

You originally posted that the Rumanian Army was insulted on that French forum. Where exactly?

As for the scan, as soon as you post something on the internet, consider it copied in that very minute.
They mentioned the source on the forum, so I see no moral or other rules broken. We do the same here on this forum, as well.

Finally, is it correct what they claim on the last post regarding your grandfather, namely:
"Gheorghe Vrânceanu-Peştera Sous-lieutenant d'artillerie membre de la Légion de d'Archange ou la Garde de Feu..."?

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on August 07, 2012 08:55 am

Here was insulted romanian army:

"Enfin, les troupes roumaines étaient souvent de moindre qualité car
constituée d'éléments... disons douteux. Certains soldats ayant des
antécédents criminels ou à la loyauté au régime déjà douteuse on imagine
facilement la quantité de désertitions arrivé au front."

Here it was insulted my grandfather's memory:

"Bye bye et dites bien le bonjour à vos amis de la légion fasciste que votre grand père n'a jamais quitté puisqu'il a encore participé après-guerre à ses activités et qu'il est salué comme quelqu'un qui n'a jamais renié ses opinions extrémistes."

And here, he made a dirty allusion:

"Je vous laisse imaginer que cet officier était naturellement pas au courant des massacres qui ont fait n'oublions pas entre 25.000 et 34.000 Juifs d'Odessa assassinés par armes à feu ou brûlés vifs et près de 100.000 autres dans la région avoisinante."

On this forum, I have posted some pictures of my grandfather to ommagiate his memory. He was in fact member of Iron Guard, but this was before the war in his civil life, like many others, and it has nothing to do with his quality of officer of romanian army, nor to Odessa. The french post was done to injury me by injuring my grandfather who was a very respectable man, 11 years in communist political prisons and he died 20 years ago.

This post has been edited by Daniel Focsa on August 07, 2012 09:47 am

Daniel,
I read the few posts on the french forum. I completely agree with you and am appalled at the way they treated you.
Those two guys were condescending, ignorant, and arrogant. If I were to joke...I would say, well, they are french after all! What do you expect? (and yes, I am a francophile and francophone).

They completed twisted your words and didn't hesitate to attack you directly in a harsh tone, while warning you against using an aggresive tone. What I saw were 2 french bullies using a double-standard. They somehow had no problem using direct tones themselves.

I won't even comment on the historical aspects, or on their labeling of your grandfather. You should be proud that he was a soldier or officer in the Romanian Army, serving his country and fighting for his country.
It is beyond comprehension how those two french guys could not see that.

However, perhaps someone should remind our french friends on their performance in the war. ) The army came to pieces rather quickly in 1940. The so-called "Resistance", while admirable, was hugeeely exaggerated post-war as a french propaganda tool (actual resistance was limited to a small number of mainly communist illegal newspaper/pamphlets publishers, and a few minor sabotage acts).

Even after 1940, they continued to be arrogant through De Gaulle, a hysterical character with an inflated ego. Eisenhower, Montgomery, Churchill, and Roosevelt openly saw him as a pain in the butt. Stalin just ignored him or humiliated him.

As I am sure you know, one small episode was the liberation of Paris, where American troops, after fighting their way, were forced to stop at the outskirts of the city so that a French division (Leclerc's, I believe?) could waltz in the city and parade down the street as liberators. I mean, Really? Come on.

We could go on and talk about wide-spread French antisemitism in the late 19th century and early 20th, all the way through 1945.

Or the fact that many inhabitants of villages in Normandy and Bretagne were angry with the Allied invasion and actually preferred the status quo.

I think I am a francophile because I try to ignore France's history in the 20th century. I'll stick to the Renaissance, Classicism, Enlightenment periods, etc. Not much to be said after 1918, sadly.

Anyway, we could go on and on with examples, but it's pointless. They will still have their over-inflated opinion of themselves and treat others as somehow inferior. Apparently, if they think France is the best country on Earth, they are patriotic, a positive virtue. But if someone else thinks the same about their own country, they are nationalists or extremists.

Oh well....I will just say that it feels good to rant and, more importantly, to be able and free to do so on this forum.

You are right.
I was highly revolted to hear that, if Antonescu made some regretable repression at Odessa (he had his motivation in war's laws) all the romanian army in Odessa is guilty. Of course I am proud for my grandfather and I shall be for ever.
If I only tried to defend the historical truth, I was "nationalist" and "extremiste".
Bad idea, for me, to go on a french forum I thought they are interested to hear more about romanian army from a Romanian, but no, they knew all better and they were too occupated to hate all former Axis army.

This post has been edited by Vranceanu on August 07, 2012 04:11 pm

You could point to Eddy Marz that although Romania was engaged in the Holocaust, a fact that it officially recognizes and atones for, the fact that he uses a Hungarian website of dubious quality is a faux pas.

But apart from that I don't think you have a case against them, Ming had a point on page 3.

Re: "dubious quality": that very much applies to the particular forum in discussion, because mainly of the arrogance and self-sufficiency of the admin/mod guys!
Re: "case", we pretty much could ignore that forum (in my case, I found about it just today and after perousing through it, well... nothing to miss!) as we did until this event!

Yes MMM, you are right.

I didn't want to make publicity for them

First, let's not turn this into a French-bashing topic.
Second, there have been instances on this forum during the years when equally stupid generalizations have been made on the French Army. Such generalizations speak for themselves on the level of knowledge someone has on a subject.

Other than that, the issue of war crimes is a delicate matter and you left the impression that you were trying to shift the discussion from them, hence their reaction, which indeed was not very appropriate.

If you want to discuss WW2 and military history in general at a high standard on a truly international forum, I suggest the Axis History Forum. It's in a different league of its own in both size and quality of moderation. However, they have very strict rules, especially regarding the Holocaust.

Well, Victor, I was on that forum for military history, and the topic was about "Romanian army on eastern front". I am not interested in talking about Holocaust.


This post has been edited by Daniel Focsa on August 10, 2012 04:21 pm