Romanian Division at Stalingrad.

What unit was that?
The book is here:
Fatal Decisions

This post has been edited by MMM on September 26, 2012 07:09 pm

I personally doubt the truth of such claims, being known the tendency of some german military commanders to blame their allies for their mistakes! By saying this does not imply that such a event could not happen... but I am inclined to believe that this is just a malicious interpretation of a disorderly retreat or disintegration of a romanian unit under soviet attack!

Well, that's what I'd like to think, too, at least until some hard proof appears!
Any other oppinions, please?

"Military unit" is kind of vague. Why didn't he say precisely what kind of unit. Could be a platoon or company, right? Is it even possible to know now what a platoon might have done at Stalingrand?

I supposed that, given the fact that a sentence earlier he was talking about divisional commanders and such, it's a division or a regiment at least! After all, "DTV" wasn't made out of the blue! And after that "DHCC"...

From the text presented I understand that the romanian unit could be only one of those encircled at Stalingrad! So the possibilities shrink very much: there were two romanian divisions trapped in Stalingrad...

If a big Romanian unit would desert en masse with all her equipment in the days of the battle for Stalingrad, such event during such a turning point will be mentioned in much more than one book, and definitely will appear in the Western documentaries dedicated to Stalingrad - and there were quite a lot of documentaries in the last 20 years, and in the last years some were quite well documented.
You guys seem surprised as well - and I assume you already read more books about Stalingrad than I did.

P.S.: A funny story from an unreliable source - Sven Hassel who died recently:
A German battalion surrendered to the French, and after France had surrendered, they were court martialed and executed. The battalion was created again, and surrendered to the Soviets. In a big encirclement movement, the Germans captured many Russians, and the German battalion who just surrendered. The new people of the battalion were again court martialed and executed, and the battalion was not created again.

Yes, this is typical Sven Hassel story. May he rest in peace.

Gen. Dénes

... and neither of them did such a thing! I thought of a smaller unit, like a batallion or something, because a company doesn't really have too much of "equipment" and a platoon even less; not to say that "en masse" should apply to regiments at leaast (thousands of people), IMHO.
So, basically, the idea is that Mr. Zeitzler exaggerated a little - or maybe it was an Italian unit, who knows?
OoT: the phenomenon of "DTV/DHCC" (divisions made by the Red Army from war prisoners) applied only to the Romanian army, right? The Poles who fought alongside them were "captured" earlier, so they don't count.

Friedrich von Paulus (General, then Field Marshall, then war prisoner) spoke few times at the Soviet radio - German language section, while Germany was still fighting an arguable cause, seen by many Germans as defending their own country.
That is for sure.
I am not sure if he was also member of the anti-Fascist organization formed in Soviet Union from the German prisoners.
I would not do it in his place, even considering that the Nazi regime did not fight a right cause - a cause that by 1943, simply became defense and survival.

I do not know if there were German units enrolled into the Red Army, but I know that the maintenance mechanics for the Tiger and Panther tanks used by the Reds were German war prisoners.

By the way, considering the text I am quoting here: there were SS units made of British war prisoners and assigned to the Eastern Front. There was also an attempt to create a similar unit from American POW's - I don't know how far this idea went.
There were British women as SS guardians in Ravensbrück concentration camp.
I stop at this "less known" category, because all the others: French, Vlasov etc. are well known.

This post has been edited by Florin on September 30, 2012 03:38 am

Selections from two articles of Tatiana P. Maliutina (Cealaia) (at Stalingrad – 70 years) and from the memory book of (gen) I.M.Cistiakov :

Cdt.Div. 63 trăgători, Col. Kozin, a luat primul interogatoriu gen. Stănescu.
Stănescu : - Domnule colonel. Am onoarea să prezint trupele regale încredinţate mie la mărinimia şi bunăvoinţa dvs. Pot să vă rog să-mi aranjaţi o întrevedere cu Cdt Armatei în faţa căruia am depus armele ?
Kozin : - … Generalul Cistiakov m-a împuternicit pe mine să port discuţiile cu dvs. Dar trebuie să ştiţi, domnule general, trupele dvs n-au depus armele în faţa Armatei, ci numai în faţa unităţilor diviziei mele...
Stănescu : - Câţi soldaţi de-ai dvs. erau pentru fiecare din soldaţii regelui ?
Kozin : - Trupele noastre au fost de trei ori mai puţine.
Stănescu : - Este imposibil !
Kozin : - Aşa s-a întâmplat, d-le general».
Stănescu : - Dacă aş fi cunoscut această situaţie, trupele mele ar fi putut să scape din încercuire.
Kozin : - Nu era bine să încercaţi să faceţi acest lucru. Aţi fi suferit pierderi mari, iar dacă scăpaţi din încercuire din raionul staţiei Raspopinskaia, vă aştepta soarta Armatei gen. Paulus, încercuită la Stalingrad.
Stănescu : - Încercuită ? Este de neînţeles...
Kozin : - Aseară, trupele Fronturilor Sud-Vest şi Stalingrad au închis încercuirea în raionul est Kalaci pe Don...
În total după lichidarea grupării de la Raspopinskaia – Izbuşenskii, au fost luaţi prizonieri peste 29 mii militari români, între care trei generali. De partea rusă au acţionat puţin peste 9 mii oameni. Dar şi românii erau cu muniţiile pe sfârşite…


This post has been edited by Petre on April 27, 2016 06:43 pm

This is an interesting report, despite the exaggerations ("three vigorous divisions") . By the looks of the composition of the captured troops, they were part of the Lascar Group. Probably when the column that was attempting to escape the bulge under the command of gen. Sion was cut in two by Soviet armor (see http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=777), this was the part that didn't make it to Bol. Donchinskaya.

Good job. (Multi page)

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?ta...58&kb_cat_id=34

This post has been edited by Petre on August 07, 2014 08:23 am

Lascar Group, aka Raspopinskaya Grupirovka (rus. texts). Five Ro. divisions surrended after five fighting days





This post has been edited by Petre on August 22, 2014 06:15 pm

Source - Net.
A document (mil. report), enough "curious". It seems it was spread to the units of the Red Army as example of good job

Balashov died soon, on 11 jan.1943.
And some words of gen. Lascar, after war : "What grateful I am to the fate, which then drove me to the only correct decision - to surrender. That saved not only my life, but also the lives of thousands of Romanian soldiers.» (Quoted from : S.P.Ivanov, The Army Staff, the Front Staff, 1982).

This post has been edited by Petre on May 21, 2015 07:19 pm