Political assassination attempts in Romania

As some of the forumists described deeds of legionary assasins, I wonder if someone found a picture of one of their victims: Manciu, liberal prefect of police in Iassy, shot in public by Corneliu Zelea-Codreanu on the steps of the Iassy Court of Justice.

the police did not capture the "green shirts" responsable for the assasinations...like all the 3 "punishment squads" (not "death squads") they knew they were doing something imoral for mankind...but very moral and justified in the face of the romanian people. And so the Nicadorii, Decemvirii and Razbunatorii all confessesd to their crimes...to demonstrate they are not meare criminals...because meare criminals run away knowing what they did was wrong....but for the punishments squad the assasinations were necessary to the evolution and the well-being of the romanian people. While as the IORGA episode there is proof that the men responsable were KGB and more importantly did not confess to the crime like the other TRUE punishments squads. MANCIU, arrested and brutaly beat the legionaires a group of about 40 students in 1924 while their where building with their own funds in Falticeni a cultural home for students, they made their own bricks, harvested their own food...and while they were working a police squad lead by Manciu came to them and beat them, used offensive language and took them into custody ( not to mention that while doing so, a group of kids walked towards the students offering them water, they were also beat and took into custody) The accusation? treason...why? apparently they were a group of students uniting as one...and they feared they will destroy the country. To skip to the interresting part....at Corneliu Zelea Codreanu's trial he was charged with murder but he was not sentanced because he murdered in self-defence...read for yourselves all you need to know about legionary related killings => http://www.fgmanu.org/istorie/sa_nu_ucizi.htm

I have a suggestion for you...before talking about something try documenting yourselves from the information written by the supporters of such a movement... try being objective when talking about history.....view the differents points of view...from the accused as well as the prosecutors. We cannot be sure as to which story is true...but at least we will know a few more details that might be important in formulating a proper opinion about a historical scene. Everybody knows what is written in history school books and books written by those who have no connection whatesoever with the movement....few had the chance of spending time and talking face to face with some of the original members such as Mircea Nicolau ( a legionary commander ) and the legionary senate.

here's an excellent site where you can find the information from the legionary point of view www.fgmanu.org (it's written in romanian) ( "Fundatia George Manu" is the active, modern form of the original "Legiunea Arhanghelului Mihail" (The Archangel Michael Legion), NOT the organization: "Noua Dreapta" (New Right) )

The legionary movement is totally legal in romania, it's just that they are not allowed to use names such as "The Archangel Michael Legion" or "The Iron Guard" and forbbiden by law are also the uniforms consisting of green shirts with a diagonal belt.

p.s. i know what i said might seem subjective, and it is but i just felt that certain aspects of what you said weren't exactly accurate.

cheers

This post has been edited by LupulDac on February 21, 2009 01:03 am

LupulDac, you are trying to bring forward an apologetic attitude to a heinous and murderous period of our country, for which there are no excuses, in any kind of light, such us collecting funds for "building up" the cultural level of the nation. Indeed, the youth were attracted into believing those things, because they were seeing good things happening, like doing voluntary jobs to do good for poor people.

In fact, nothing had a real fundament, this was just a spectacle of the fascist movements all over the world to gain popularity. It's like today "Becali" building several houses for votes, when in fact it is needed a real economical program and policy to raise the country, program which the legionary movement was lacking.

The fact that Carol II carried out a governmental policy of assassination does not excuse the policy of retaliation the legionary movement had carried. There could not have been an "evolution and well-being" with such kind of attitude. I can agree that it was a period of dictatorships all over the world and the things were not seen like now, but for someone today to claim that the legionary movement did good is beyond my understanding (having a political right affinity)

Oh, but they (the "legionari") had a potential in that era, and it seems their power of seduction waned, but not so much. I graduated the Iaşi "Al. I. Cuza" University, the Faculty of History, in 2000 and I can state for sure that among some of my fellow students (not many of them, anyway), the spirit of the "Captain" was still alive - and I'm not sure it was only terribilism or things alike. It seems that Zelea-Codreanu's ghost still haunts some people! And, dragoş, they were not so extreme-right as it would seem today, and neither were the Italian fascists, for that matter.
From where I stand, the leftist movement is much more compromised by the so-called comunism/socialism experiments since 1917 than the right-wingers because of the inter-war period regimes.
As off-topic as it is, no regime founded an assasination (political or otherwise) is not bound to last!
As for the legionar assasination, should we look in the Bible (as they were sooooo religious...) to see the proverb "Live by the sword, die by the sword", or however should be translated "Cine scoate sabia, de sabie va pieri"? Should we?

This post has been edited by MMM on February 23, 2009 01:26 pm

I disagree, it had a very strong fundament based on hatred for traitors, corrupt groups in control of politics (camarile) and the perceived mishandling/destruction of one's country. The big difference though is that back then the regular people had the ability to own fire arms.

An eye for an eye.

Imperialist, you say it was a movement based on hatred, right? So it was never-ever-ever going to be a "healthy" movement: let's suppose, for the sake of it, that such a movement obtained power and achieved its goals; what happens next?
They were just mystic extremists, jew-haters and many others under a common hat
However, the political assasination has a very old tradition, being perhaps as old as civilization itself - we didn't invent the wheel!
As for the arms possession isssue, that's another "ballgame" - look at the USA; some of them are't really happy with that, except the NRA fan(atic)s. I don't want to live in a state where the possession of guns is legal for every citizen, except when that state has a Justice worth its name and (why not?) the death penalty. My oppinion...

No, I said hatred towards traitors, corruption and mismanagement. Don't take it out of that context.

They said very clearly what next - they would have steered Romania towards an alliance with Germany and Italy.

Still is hatred, isn't it?!?!
What happens after all the hatred

are dealt with? Who's next? The jews, the gypsies, the gays, the intellectuals, WHO?
I never agreed w/ extremism in any of its forms. Here's a good joke: "Death to the extremists!"

are dealt with? Who's next? The jews, the gypsies, the gays, the intellectuals, WHO?
I never agreed w/ extremism in any of its forms. Here's a good joke: "Death to the extremists!"

You missed my point. Which was that these movements stick because people have real complaints against the things I mentioned. This is the glue that holds them together. Whether the movement chooses to target a certain group has to do with its ideological orientation.

These kinds of movements do not want to deal with the traitors/corrupt in some chaotic and ineffective fashion. They want them dealt with, but preferrably in a legal way. That's why they take part in the electoral process. If they are violently targeted by the authorities that seek to eliminate them then things can escalate.

I'm afraid once the thing escalate this way, they lose any kind of credibility in being capable to deal with the problems of the county (corruption, economical etc) in a legal and civilized way.

I was talking about a feasible governing program in the eventuality they are elected and comes to power. The hatred for corrupts and "traitors" alone does not make one automatically capable to rule a country.



This post has been edited by dragos on February 21, 2009 04:10 pm

Somehow, both dragoş and Imperialist are right. But the legionars' movement was condemned by history and this forum seems to allocate too much space to that. It seems there are too many nostalgic forumists in here - hopefully, not extremists, as well! I told you I had my share of extremists singing crappy songs like "Legiunea, căpitanul şi arhanghelii de fier" or whatever its name was wih every occasion the drank a glass too much (which was quite often, and maybe not a glass, but a bottle ), so I'd like to focus more on political assasination than on Codreanu's past and present adepts.

"Indeed, the youth were attracted into believing those things, because they were seeing good things happening, like doing voluntary jobs to do good for poor people."

and doing volontary work for people is a bad thing...ok...i get it, you are right let's all think of ourselves...the hell with the country, it's history, it's people...like who cares if politics and politicians, take advantage of the middle and lower classes...........here's a thought for you. In one of his books , Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, dissregarded politicianism saying it was easy to corupt, because politicians can easily be bought and have the power to step on the middle and lower classes without any justification or consent from anybody....he said and i quote and translate " We do not deny and will not deny the existance, purpose of material things in the world, but we will always deny the right of its absolute sovereignity". Capitanul better preached about camaradery and equality between people...higher than the likes of brotherhood...higher than the false,hypocritical masonic equality of france.

About becalli...like i said before....politics...he is only right oriented as a political party, yet he has no connection whatsoever with the legionnary movement, and its beliefs...the legionnares don't and are not helping for votes...because the legionnary movement isn't a political party, it's a school of the mind, where you learn to become organized, love those around you, respect and honor your native land, history and people who fought for and protected this land. Not the demagogical people we see on TV every day...spreading false hope and lies, people die and have died in this country more because of lack of jobs given through coruption, people that literally have no right to finish a college because are not that well prepared rise to be "hot-shots" in society because they buy their status and education...and those who actually study hard and work for their education have no room left because of the corupt, dirty dogs that ......all this is worth way lot more than what the legionnares did and wanted to accomplish through their movement...

About CAROL II...he was a meare pawn...most of the internal stuff was done by his ministers...he did not agree to such actions

I'm not appolagizing for them...i just presented a piece of history other than what you learn in school...have you at least tried to read something they wrote, have you read anything from Corneliu Zelea Codreanu himself? Ion Mota? even the poetry of Radu Gyr and Mihai Eminescu (yes he was a legionnaire too...look it up if you don't believe me), Noica, Cioran ... now that's love for country and people...not property and money.
Property and money isn't what this country needs, it needs a national identity...we are known all over the world for being thieves, that we run away from our country to work somwhere else....it's because we are still living in communism, nothing has changed...not even the freedom of speech , i know an honest working girl from a newspaper...that isn't allowed to write what she really thinks about certain things...her editor literally writes his own version so that it would sell to the naiv public, even though it's a bunch of lies........

I'm not starting a revolution just to be clear, i just agree with what Capitanul had to say.




AND ONE MORE THING, STOP TALKING FROM HISTORY BOOKS YOU HAVE FROM SCHOOL...TRY READING FROM THE AUTHORS THAT LIVED IN THAT PERIOD...EVEN LITERATURE...IT WILL GIVE YOU A BETTER POINT OF VIEW

like i said...they know what they did wasn't bible friendly....that's why they confeced their crimes and if you had read anything from the site i linked you too...you'd see they found justification in the bible as well...because the bible and religion are what they are...written by man and bypasses can be made ...



http://www.fgmanu.net/istorie.htm#Problema read everything written in this chapter here about the violences the legionnaires did...and maybe then we can talk at the same level...untill then don't talk about what you don't know

No, we are not know for that. Not by everyone. A certain part of society want to deptict Romanians as that, but the majority of the population do not see Romanians like that.
I have been living abroad for many years. I know.

The worrying thing is that the particular section of the society that denigrate the Romanians and demand "action" against them, do so from a position of, to quote you, "camaradery and equality between people, higher than the likes of brotherhood, a school of the mind, where you learn to become organized, love those around you, respect and honor your native land, history and people who fought for and protected this land, love for country and people, national identity"

You see, the problem that most people have with this frame of mind is that although these may be "honourable" and "decent" ideals, they apply only to a selected few, an inner circle. If you are not one of "them", then you are beneth them and not worthy. If you were a Jew or a Gypsy you could not join the Legion. In fact, the Legion did a lot more to these people than just deny them access. This may be called, xenophobia, racism etc.

These are the reasons why the Legion was regarded as a "failed" movement. They were a product of their times. Same happened in Germany, Italy, Hungary, etc. The concept was tried, it failed, and the world moved on.

Radu

Jeeze! I'm dumbfounded! What's your level, then? What are your credentials?
Plus, this forum IS made to discuss about things we don't know! Not for extremists!