May 31, 1944 W.Batz claims

Denes

Indeed I try to match the claims with those
of the Sviets, so by no means would appreciate
the help

BR

Al

My list for 7.IAK/5.VA on the 31.5.1944 shows the following fighter pilot's names:
Барышев Илья Павлович
Бургонов Николай Федорович
Волков Семен Иванович
Евсюков Василий Кузьмич
Забелин Сергей Яковлевич aviakatastr. P39
Каменский Алексей Павлович
Карпов Николай Павлович
Осипов Георгий Яковлевич
Петухов Владимир Сергеевич
Пуговский Михаил Николаевич aviakatastr. P39
Сандалинов Виктор Александрович
Соколов Василий Васильевич
Чистов Николай Александрович
Шкондин Василий Демьянович
Язов Леонид Александрович

Included are 9.GIAD, 205.IAD and 304.IAD. Their IAP's pilots claimed aerial vistories during "our" operation.

12.GIAD from 1.GShAK also filed two losses from:
Кощеев Георгий Федорович (183.GIAP)
Назаров Тит Данилович (186.GIAP)

Shturmoviks and bombers are not yet finished

This post has been edited by yogy on November 11, 2011 08:28 am

Yogi

Thank you for your follow up, though the addition is
not really an addition, the names & figures I gave were
those who come in question in line with the initial
topic losses.

The extra two names showing up on your list
were not event related eventhough the dates are
correct (Pugovski & Zabelin )

Both pilots seems to have been killed near their
airfield during take off or perhaps during landing
near Vinitza region as such they are filed as non
combat related casualties .

Petuhov & Osipov were from 104 GvIAP,also I
found Kozinov and Tschesnokov from same
mentioned GIAD and matching the date in
question...though no sufficient personal ref.
available.

In addition I don't think that the last two pilots
of 12 GIAD possibly flew P-39's but rather YAK's.

Best Regards
Alex

This post has been edited by yugit on November 11, 2011 11:29 am

Al, thank you for the inspiring words "not really an addition" . To be honest, such stuff rather demotivates me to further cooperation. And still, it is two more then in your list of eleven.

Anyway, let's go on:
1) How / from which source do you know that Pugovski & Zabelin were killed near Vinnitsa? Afaik, 104.GIAP was based just N of the line Botosani/Stefanesti.

2) Even if one leaves them and the two Yak-pilots out, I still count 13 other P-39 pilots being killed on that day, presumably all in combat.

From that "fact" of 13, one still can only make an educated guess on the number of planes lost.
But one thing is sure: The number is still huge compared to two pilots from JG52 who were KIA on that day.

(Even if this still is very simplified due to Romanians and other Soviet units...)

Back to the original topic: With the data which is available to me, it is just not possible to proof or disprove the claims of Batz.

Have a nice weekend (everybody).Today is the most inspring date of all oru life:

11.11.'11

Yogi,


Ml.Lt's Pugoski & Zabelin were killed according OBD, which I am sure
you can read Russian , in the Vinitza Obleasty.....Vinitzkoy Obleasti
means in Russian,Vinitza region....and " after an air catastrophy "
I wonder on why ,by me rectifying the events that would lead to loss
of motivation at your end ? The total is more or less in line with
what I've indicated earlier on .

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

Alex

PS : I have attached the original document for the purpose of translation

This post has been edited by yugit on November 11, 2011 07:36 pm

13 dead fighter pilots in one single day is a huge number. When accurate numbers of aircraft actually lost in combat is missing, you can easily multiply the number of dead pilots by two to get a ballpark number. If you count the combat damaged ones, too, you can easily reach 40-50 aircraft. However, this is speculation only. That's why archival research is so essential to get the real picture.

Gen. Dénes