Regimental reconnaissance company

Hello everyone!

This is my first post to this forum.
My question is about the regimental reconnaissance company in infantry regiments of the Romanian Army. On page 42 in "Third Axis, Fourth Ally", there is a breakdown of a 1941 infantry division showing 8 LMG in the regimental reconnaissance company. Then, on page 77 there is a breakdown of the 5th, 6th and 13th infantry divisions from 1942 showing 16 LMG and 2 60 mm mortars in the regimental reconnaissance company. Presumably the other Echelon II infantry divisions had the same organization. The question is:
Does anybody know how this equipment was distributed among the platoons and sections of the regimental reconnaissance company in 1941 and 1942 respectively? And what was the organization of that company, how many platoons, sections, people, etc?

Thank you.

Okay, I guess my questions are a bit hard to answer. But I did more research and I found the following on the Internet:
http://istorie-militara.blogspot.jp/2007/0...a-romana-n.html
It is a report on the results of an investigation inquiring why the Romanian Army could not achieve a fast and easy victory at the siege of Odessa. One part of it comments on the regimental reconnaissance company, quoting in Romanian:
"Compania de cercetare s-a dovedit a fi prea slab dotata cu armament automat. Nevoile operative au dus la intarirea ei cu un pluton de cercetasi calari si s-au dat pusti mitraliere."
I dont speak Romanian so I used Google Translate to get a rough translation of the text. As you may know, Google Translate does not always provide correct translation in terms of grammar and words, so I had to modify the Google translation to what I think is a better English translation:
"The reconnaissance company proved to be too weakly equipped with automatic weapons. The operational needs resulted in her strengthening with a cavalry platoon and machine guns."
I would be very grateful if someone who speaks Romanian could confirm that. In the meantime it would appear that at some point after (or during?) the siege of Odessa the regimental reconnaissane company was strengthened by the addition of a cavalry platoon. And the number of machine guns in the company was incresed too, probably because of the organic machine guns of the newly added cavalry platoon, or probably because the number of machine guns in the other platoons was increased too.
I would be happy to see your comments.

Frozenlake, the translation you used is an accurate one.

Thanks Agarici. I will continue to look for other sources as well.

This post has been edited by Frozenlake on October 06, 2012 07:34 pm

Hi Frozenlake, try this link.


recon

Ian.

Hello Ian, thank you very much.
I know the site of Dr. Leo Niehorster. His description of the regimental reconnaissance company, which by the way can be found in the organizational chart of the 1941 Infantry Regiment here, is different from what can be seen on page 42 in "Third Axis, Fourth Ally".
In Dr. Leo Niehorster's chart there are two infantry platoons and one cavalry platoon, totaling 11 LMG (8 LMG in the two infantry platoons and 3 LMG in the cavalry platoon). The "Third Axis, Fourth Ally" chart does not go down to platoon level but it shows that there are only 8 LMG in the regimental reconnaissance company. So, the description is different. One may easily jump into the conclusion that according to "Third Axis, Fourth Ally", there are only two infantry platoons in the 1941 regimental reconnaissance company, however it is not explicitly said so. Also, it is important to mention that Dr. Leo Niehorster's chart shows the mobilized organization of the 1941 Infantry Division and the 1941 Infantry Regiment respectively, while the "Third Axis, Fourth Ally" chart simply says "1941 Infantry Division", which may be the peacetime organization. It could be that when mobilized, the regimental reconnaissance company was reinforced with one cavalry platoon, but who knows....

Also, I found a slightly different version of the report on the results of an investigation inquiring why the Romanian Army could not achieve an easy and quick victory at the siege of Odessa that I mentioned in my post from October 6th. This version can be seen here.
There are two sentences in Romanian about the regimental reconnaissance company:
"Compania de cercetare de la infanterie s-a dovedit a fi mult prea slabă pentru misiunile în care a fost întrebuinţată. Ca urmare s-a simţit, aproape în permanenţă, nevoia de a fi întărită cu un pluton de mitraliere, iar plutonul de cercetaşi călări cu puşti-mitraliere."
My translation of these two sentences is as follows:
"The reconnaissance company of the infantry [regiment] proved to be too weak for the tasks it was used for. As a consequence, the need to reinforce it with a platoon of [heavy] machine guns and a cavalry reconnaissance platoon with light machine guns was felt almost permanently."
So, it was thought necessary to strengthen the regimental reconnaissance company with two platoons - one heavy machine gun platoon and one cavalry reconnaissance platoon with light machine guns.
Could anybody check this translation, please?

You are welcome Frozenlake, I am sorry I cannot help you further, I only have the TO&E for the Infantry Company, there is one nation who I am stuck on, the Yugoslav Infantry company 1941, there is nothing out there that gives you a detailed account of this unit.

Ian.

Hello Frozenlake. My version of the translation would be "The reconnaissance company of the infantry [regiment] proved to be too weak for the tasks it was used for. As a consequence, the need to reinforce it with a platoon of [heavy] machine guns and [to reinforce] the cavalry reconnaissance platoon with light machine guns was felt almost permanently." So, in my interpretation, the cavalry platoon was already there.

Ian, thank you very much again. By the way, it will be very interesting to see the TO&E of the Infantry Company that you have. And especially, the number of LMG. Were there 4 LMG in a platoon, and 12 LMG in the whole company? According to "Third Axis, Fourth Ally" and Dr. Leo Niehorster, there were 12 LMG in the 1941 Infantry Company.
And as far as I know, there were 3 Sections in the 1941 Infantry Platoon and each Section had 1 LMG, so where was the 4th LMG? In the Platoon's HQ? This is very interesting because in that case the 4th LMG might have been a spare one and not necessarily used in battle. This is just a guess, I hope you know more than me....Anyway, the TO&E of the 1941 Infantry Platoon may have some useful insights for the 1941 Reconnaissance Company too because it seems that the 1941 Reconnaissance Company had 2 Infantry Platoons...
Yes, the 1941 Yugoslav Infantry Company is a tricky one, I'll see if I can find something.

Agarici, thank you very much for your help with the translation. Yes, this translation leaves no doubt - there was one cavalry platoon, quite probably without any LMG, and it had to be reinforced with LMG. This would explain the 8 LMG in the 1941 Reconnaissance Copmany in "Third Axis, Fourth Ally" which may be the LMG in the two Infantry Platoons, if, of course, we accept that there were 4 LMG in one Infantry Platoon....And yet, according to Dr. Leo Niehorster the Cavalry Platoon in the 1941 Reconnaissance company already had 3 LMG.
But this translation also means that there is an important difference between the two sources I quoted - the first says that the Reconnaissance company had to be reinforced with a Cavalry Platoon (who were given LMG), and the second says that THE Cavalry platoon had to be reinforced with LMG which means, as Agarici said, that this Cavalry Platoon was one and that it was already there.
It is interesting that both sources refer to the same original document - a report on the Battle of Odessa (Arh. M.Ap.N., fond Microfilme, rola P II !.1104, c 332-348). I think, however, that the first source is more reliable because it seems to be a 1-to-1 copy of that microfilm while the second seems to be an article describing the Battle of Odessa.
Again, for your reference:
First source
Second source

Hello Frozenlake, this is where I am a the moment with the Romanian 1942 Infantry Company;

Romanian Rifle Company 1942

Company HQ
1 x Captain (Beretta M.1934 9mm Pistol)
1 x Company Sgt Major (Steyr M.1912 9mm Pistol)
1 x Bugler (ZB24 7.92mm rifle)
Signal team
1 x Corporal (ZB24 7.92mm rifle)
3 x men (ZB24 7.92mm rifles)
1 x M.1933 MAN Field Telephone
Observation team
1 x Corporal (ZB24 7.92mm rifle)
3 x men (ZB24 7.92mm rifles)
Chemical team
1 x Corporal (ZB-24 7.92mm rifle)
2 x men (ZB-24 7.92mm rifles)
Medical team
1 x Sgt/medic (Steyr M.1912 9mm Pistol)
4 x Orderly’s (Steyr M.1912 9mm Pistols)

3 x Rifle Platoons each:
Platoon HQ
1 x Lieutenant (Beretta M.34 9mm pistol)
1 x Platoon Sgt (Berretta M.34 9mm SMG)
1 x Sniper (Mosin Nagant M.1891/30 7.62mm rifle + Sight)
1 x Tank Hunter Team
1 x Grenadier (Steyr M.1912 9mm Pistol + AT Grenades)
1 x Man (Berretta M.38 9mm SMG)
1 x Mortar Squad
1 x Sgt (ZB-24 7.92mm rifle)
1 x Corporal/Gunner (Steyr M.1912 9mm Pistol)
2 x Loaders (Steyr M.1912 9mm Pistols)
1 x Corporal/ammo carrier (ZB-24 7.92mm rifle)
2 x men/ammo carriers (ZB-24 7.92mm rifles)
1 x 60mm M.36 Mortar

4 x Rifle Sections each:
1 x Sgt (Berretta M.34 9mm SMG)
1 x LMG Squad
1 x Corporal (ZB-24 7.92mm rifle)
1 x LMG Gunner (1 x ZB-30 7.92mm LMG + Steyr M.1912 9mm Pistol)
1 x Loader (ZB-24 7.92mm rifle)
2 x Ammo Carriers (ZB-24 7.92mm rifles)
Rifle Squad
1 x Corporal (ZB-24 7.92mm rifle)
4 x Men (ZB-24 7.92mm rifles)

I am trying to keep it simple because it is for a wargame in 1/72 scale.
Ian.

Ian, this is actually a very detailed TO&E, thanks. So, the 1942 Infantry Platoon had 4 LMG and 1 60 mm Mortar, which means that the 1942 Infantry Company had 12 LMG and 3 60 mm Mortars. This is what "Third Axis, Fourth Ally" says about the 1942 Infantry Company too.
Also, "Third Axis, Fourth Ally" says that the 1942 Regimental Reconnaissance Company had 16 LMG and 2 60 mm Mortars. This is two times more LMG's than 1941, plus the mortars, meaning that the company was significantly stregthened. So far I have found nothing about the TO&E of the 1942 Regimental Reconnaissance Company but presumably, following "Third Axis, Fourth Ally", it was made up of at least 2 Infantry Platoons with 4 LMG each, and probably 1 Cavalry Platoon with 8 LMG (like some Cavalry Squadrons in 1941), or 2 Cavalry Platoons each with 4 LMG. If they were really two, one of them might have been an Infantry Platoon, I don't think that the Cavalry Platoons were dropped altogether. Again, all that is just an educated guess.
Do you have similar TO&E for the 1941 Infantry Company? I am very interested to see it.

Hi Frozenlake, I am glad you found my last post helpful, I have looked at my TO&E for the 1941 Infantry Company, I did not add any weapons to this list, maybe I didn’t get round to doing so, but they could be similar to the 1942 model.
Romanian Rifle Company 1942

Company HQ
1 x Captain
1 x Company Sgt Major
Signal team
1 x Corporal
6 x men
Observation team
1 x Corporal
6 x men
Chemical team
1 x Corporal
2 x men
Medical team
1 x Sgt/medic
4 x Orderly’s

3 x Rifle Platoons each:
Platoon HQ
1 x Lieutenant
1 x Platoon Sgt
3 x Runners /signallers

4 x Rifle Sections each:
1 x Sgt
1 x LMG Squad
1 x Corporal
1 x LMG Gunner
1 x Loader
3 x Ammo Carriers
Rifle Squad
1 x Corporal
4 x Men
Ammunition team;
1 x Corporal
9 x Men

I also found this on my hard drive; I can’t remember where it came from.

The Infantry Platoon was led by either a 1st or 2nd Lieutenant.
The Platoon HQ Contained;
1 x Senior Sgt & 3 x Runners (one of the runners was the Lieutenants orderly, another could be a sniper).
The Platoon contained three Infantry Squads;
The Squad was led by a Sgt, and his Squad was split into three Sections;
1 x LMG Section (1 x Corporal / 1 x Senior Private armed with a ZB-30 LMG / 1 x Private assistant Gunner.
Three more Privates rounded off the Section.
2 x Rifle Squads each containing; 1 x Corporal and 4 x Privates.

Ian.

Have you looked on the website?
http://www.worldwar2.ro/organizare/?language=en§ion=24