Georgia vs. Russia

Not a single quote from wikipedia, today?

Iama

A lot of the russians look to have old uniforms, not the standard "Flora" camouflage pattern wich is in use today.

http://www.kamouflage.net/country/00156.php

Are this conscripts, "freedom fighters", "volunteers"?

This post has been edited by Hadrian on August 20, 2008 10:28 pm

A post was deleted.

Let's try to keep this discussion serious.

What is the economic situation in Georgia now?

The economy must be completely stalled with Georgia's ports, railways and roads blockaded, destroyed or out of its control. And Georgia is still in a state of war (if I remember correctly that decision was not turned down and is supposed to last 2 months). Which means another drain on the economy.

How long before people turn against Saakashvili. Maybe that is what the Russians are hoping for and why they are taking so much time to completely withdraw.

I don`t think peeople will turn against Saakashvili. Instead his suport increased. Even the oposition stands now by his side, and not criticising his actions.
People will always unite against a foreign invasion. It is the best propaganda asset you can have.
Remember how the russians were willing to die by millions in frontal assaults in WW2, altough they were protecting the same regime that sent millions of them to death in gulags.

On the other side, Saakashvili`s support was explicitely affirmed also externaly.
If the purpose of Russia was to bring him down, they really failed.

What will happen now is that EU peacekeeping forces will be installed, while euroatlantic integration of Gorgia will be accelerated. After admission, the russians will kindly be invited out.

And Eu will really have to put itself togheter to increase its energy independence.

It certainly looks that way.

But it depends whether they can hold that unity under economic pressure. Back in 1999 Serbia's economy was in shambles after the bombing campaign. Eventually the people went into the street and toppled Milosevic with his regime forces standing by and allowing it.

It certainly looks that way.

But it depends whether they can hold that unity under economic pressure. Back in 1999 Serbia's economy was in shambles after the bombing campaign. Eventually the people went into the street and toppled Milosevic with his regime forces standing by and allowing it.

Sorry I missed this thread until now; wow! many excellent posts!

IMO, this invasion (or counterinvasion) and now "withdrawal" is a "game changer"; Russia is back!

They may not look all that impresssive (scruffy troops, dented trucks, questionable command and control performance, etc), but they made their statement, for sure.

I think it was interesting timing: a bald attempt to steal the spotlight from the true new power, China, and put a stick in the eye of the old ones. The question is what happens now? I'll be surprised if they succeed in unhorsing Saakashvili; he's no Milosevic, and the parade of U.S./E.U. big gun diplomats into the country (culminating this week with the arrival of v.p. Dick "kickass" Cheney) says a line has been drawn in the sand somewhere.

We are in the middle of a new "Great Game". As I write this, I'm watching a new U.S. president being nominated. Whichever one wins, it's unlikely he will be holding hands with Putin & Co. anytime soon.

cheers, all

I was intrigued how come you missed this one.

It's official now. Russia recognized the independence of Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia: BBC

Trans-Dnestra is probably next.

And in a few years every street will be an independent state....

Did you see this Saakashvili statement:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/25/world/eu.../25georgia.html

Some could understand from this that a modern European country does nothing when it faces aggression.

on the other hand, what's the point of waging a war you know you'll lose from start?

Knowing the one you attack will fight back hard is a strong detterent, even for a stronger force. No one wants his electors to see bodies in bags on tv, and the dead`s moms will protest on the streets and cry in front of cameras. Veery bad...

Also when you fight and are defeated you can later cry the treaty of peace was imposed with the gun at your temple and reject it at a later point, when situation is diferent

And you can go to guerilla warfare when you are ocuppied. After one year the ocuppant will be thinking strongly to find a way out. Think Vietnam, Afghanistan.

And the last but not the least honor.