War against Bulgaria?

[Geto-Dacul]

Victor wrote :

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Getting back to our topic. The Treaty of Craiova with Bulgaria was by far the most amiable of all three territorial losses in 1940. The Romanians represented less than 50% in the Cadrilater (southern Dobruja), although I could not find exactly how many and which was the most numerous ethnicity. There was an exchange of populations (some 22,000 Romanian families left the territory) and Bulgaria had to pay 1 billion lei for the investments done in the inter-war period.

What do you think : Was the Cadrilater a strategic region, for the defense of the rest of Dobrogea and for control of the Danube?

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Actually Romania is the most pro-EU of all candidate (and former candidate) states. Some 80% for the EU. However I doubt that more then 10% of these know exactly how the EU functions. The partial loss of sovereignty is not that important for the regular Romanian, living better is.

Many Romanians don't even know that they'll lose some sovereignty... I heard voices that declared that when we enter EU, 1000 LEI will equal 1000 Euro and other crazy thoughs...

Getu'

[Chandernagore]

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Many Romanians don't even know that they'll lose some sovereignty

But you can leave whenever you want, that's a big difference.

[Chandernagore]

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In Europe, there are territorial problems between Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia... Between Hungary and Slovakia (the dispute on a barrage), Poland and Russia (Kaliningrad territory), Lithuania and Russia (Nemunas river), Estonia and Russia (Narva region), Russia and Ukraine (Tuzla island - Kertsch Peninsula), Moldavian Republic and Transnistrian separatists, Ukraine and Romania (strategic Serpent's island in the Black Sea), Greece and Turkey (Egean Isles - very tensionate) etc.

And curiously within EU there are none. How come ?

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Of course that war between EU-NATO countries is unthinkable (for now) because they are allied by force.

No, they are allied by common interest and values.

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New frontiers were created but no one existing was modified.

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East and West Germany united ; territorial modification...

Extension outside EU by common consent.

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Ex-Yugoslavia splited in small states ; the existing Yugoslavia was modified etc.

Again, not EU. Out of scope.

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This is the official theory. First of all, not every European can travel like you.

Wrong, this is the practical reality. All EU citizens can travel like that and a majority do.

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Everyone of the countries of the EU has its proper economical, social and cultural tradition, and imposing a single and universal model everywhere can bring a lot of instability.

I fail to see the causal link with instability. Perhaps you can explain it ? For 50 years it has only brought stability. All EU countries work in the same economic model. EU was a economic construction at the beginning. Cultural traditions are not directly affected (and very little indirectly).

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I don't think that the Germans like that much trade and work with Euros...

Yes they do. Germany and France were the locomotives behind the single currency.

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The Swedes realized that and voted against unique currency.

And all the others were blind ? Nonsense. The Swedes made a choice based on different factors and that choice of course will be respected. It doesn't hurt anyone. Sooner or later the market structure and economic forces will make them change their mind. It's only a question of time. Who cares ?

[Florin]

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......... The more we advance in civilization the less these practices are tolerated and justly so. Milosevic didn't quite understand this..........

And who are the ones who understood it?
The Croats :?: The Bosnian Muslims :?: The Albanians :?:

I was and I am still sick of: Only the Serbians are the bad guys
And: Only the others are the good guys

Excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom to vomit a little.
So I am finishing this here.

Florin

[Chandernagore]

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And who are the ones who understood it?   The Croats :?: The Bosnian Muslims :?:  The Albanians :?:

Not at all. NATO.

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I was and I am still sick of: Only the Serbians are the bad guys   And: Only the others are the good guys

Lol. ha ha ha it's so funny I could die.

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Excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom to vomit a little.

Yeah, stay there.

[Victor]

Can't you guys discuss this in a more friendly way?

[Florin]

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QUOTE And who are the ones who understood it?   The Croats :?: The Bosnian Muslims :?:  The Albanians :?: Not at all. NATO.

And...

What is NATO?

God???

Or the supreme mathematical law unifying the 4 fundamental forces in physics???

I am afraid not.

Florin

[Florin]

Hi Chandernagore,

I think each of us like to regard himself as an intelligent person.

As supposedly intelligent persons, for each of us the situation in Yugoslavia was by far more complicated than the black and white image created by mass-media for the "poor dumb bastard ". The last words are from the quote chosen by you to be your personal motto.

So maybe we have 2 points in common, but I am afraid this stops here.

To start to argue my point of view, and to start to argue your point of view, represent a cumbersome task and I am afraid doesn't worth the effort, as I'll not change my mind, and you'll not change your mind.

I cannot answer whatever I like and I cannot say everything I should. Even if you'll attack with some arguments, I'll not take the bite. The fact that I'll not do it doesn't mean you'll convince me with your message.

Florin

[Dénes]

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I am afraid doesn't worth the effort, as I'll not change my mind, and you'll not change your mind.

Based on my experience on the internet, this is the main problem with discussion forums. People very rarely change their minds and points of view, after being logically persuaded by others.

I have seen only a handful of cases when somebody actually said: "you're right, you convinced me with your arguments". That's one of the reasons why I usually refrain myself to engage in various discussions involving broad and ambiguous topics.

[Florin]

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People very rarely change their minds and points of view, after being logically persuaded by others.   I have seen only a handful of cases when somebody actually said: \"you're right, you convinced me with your arguments\". ........

Most often people reach a compromise, in between.

The problem in this matter which I accept I started to attack is that I prefer to don't say everything I would like about it.

Just in the 1990's a lot of things regarding World War II started to emerge into public light. If somebody would dare to make statements about them in the late 1940's or in the 1950's, would be considered at least strange by the others.

So I can only hope that some of my personal thoughts will be confirmed in time by others. Even in a democracy, if you cannot prove what you are claiming it is better to keep your mouth shut.

Regards,
Florin

[Florin]

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..... What do you think : Was the Cadrilater a strategic region, for the defense of the rest of Dobrogea and for control of the Danube?.........

For Romania was always easier to defend its southern part of the country alongside Danube. This means by abandoning Dobrogea.

That's why in late 14th and early 15th century Wallachia had Dobrogea, but later she abandoned the area. That's why in World War I the Romanian Army abandoned Dobrogea and blown up the magnificent bridge built at Cernavoda. The problem remains, with or without the Cadrilater area.
Today the importance for defence of a big river is much lower than in the past. Actually, Napoleon considered a mistake to trust a river for defense, and that was 200 years ago.

Romania's control of the lower part of Danube (a lenght of more than 1000 km) is unquestionable, with of without Cadrilater.

I consider the Cadrilater problem was just the last drop to fill the glass of national sorrow in 1940. And of course a pain for the Romanian families who had to relocate from there. I heard that the Black Sea shore is more beautiful there than in Dobrogea as Romania has it today. But this is a touristical matter, and not a strategical one.

Regards,
Florin
PS: I qualified the Cernavoda bridge as "magnificent" considering the time when it was built. At that moment, it was the longest in Europe and the second in the world. Today, of course, it is a common bridge. If I remember right, the old bridge is abandoned now, and the trafic is through the parallel new bridge.

[Chandernagore]

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Based on my experience on the internet, this is the main problem with discussion forums. People very rarely change their minds and points of view, after being logically persuaded by others.

I do not quite see things in this light. I 'm not trying to "convince" some other poster ; the reflection is for the bypassers. They are not directly involved, they have nothing to "win" or "loose" and so they can think about things without personal involvement getting into the way of rational evaluation.

Now I must admit the exchange with Florin was not very enlightning either. Happens when you're light years away in considering a problem.
I merely stated a neutral fact about the NATO/Serbia story : they kicked Milosevic' ass because they had the will and power to do it (in that sense yeah that organization is closer to God than anything else in Europe) and he overreacted emotionally, still wonder why.

[Florin]

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..................... Now I must admit the exchange with Florin was not very enlightning either.  Happens when you're light years away in considering a problem.   I merely stated a neutral fact about the NATO/Serbia story : they kicked Milosevic' ass because they had the will and power to do it (in that sense yeah that organization is closer to God than anything else in Europe) and he overreacted emotionally, still wonder why.

Hi,

Well, you made me to smile, in the good sense! This is not an irony, and there was not an ironical smile. As in 3 or 4 months from now on, the site will still run ahead, and me and you will still be around, maybe I'll add some enlighting ideas. 8) :idea: :wink: __I am sorry I cannot do it now.

Have a nice day,
Florin

[Chandernagore]

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Well, you made me to smile, in the good sense! This is not an irony, and there was not an ironical smile. As in 3 or 4 months from now on, the site will still run ahead, and me and you will still be around, maybe I'll add some enlighting ideas. 8)  :idea:  :wink: __I am sorry I cannot do it now. Have a nice day, Florin

Thanks. You too. Sometimes I behave like the bull in my avatar.
This is all very misterious Florin. Mmm well perhaps you have some Serb links he he, all is possible. My own mother has Croatian origins. You never know where you put your feet ;-)
Anyway sorry for my rudeness.

[Florin]

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........ This is all very misterious Florin. Mmm well perhaps you have some Serb links he he, all is possible.  My own mother has Croatian origins. You never know where you put your feet ......

Hi,

Just for the record, I do not have any kind of blood links with the Serbian nation.
To make a joke: Up to how many generations?

Because each of us has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 grand-grandparents, 16 grand-grand-grandparents, and so on. Back to the times of Napoleon, each of us has 128 persons in ancestry (I considered 4 generations per century.)
Back to the times of the Roman emperor Augustus, each of us has 1.2 millions billions billions ancestors. This is somehow a nonsense, and by far bigger that the estimated 90 billions human beings who lived during the existence of Homo Sapiens.
Why I highlighted this nonsense? Because whoever claims he is of a pure nationality, just deludes himself. The better approach is: "pure" for how many generations?
At the beginnigs of SS, for the admittal in the organization the Nazi tested the "blood purity" down to 1700. That was a non-sense. From their point of view, with all the junk theories of pure / impure blood, checking down to 1700 was waste of time. If a SS member had a Jewish ancestor in 1675, and counting down from 1925, he had 0.1 percent Jewish blood anyway.

OK, so the approach would be: at age 13, I built my family tree down to 6 generations. Any Serbian link - out of question.

About the misterious matter, I like to let it this way for the moment. Remember, guys, any word in this site is read by thousands of eyes, known or "hidden".

Regards,
Florin