Support for August, 1944?

[Carol I]

QUOTE

I don't think any situation as 23/8 schould be a reason for celebrations. Any soldiers who invade a coutry ,be they ggod or bad,they stil are invaders.No reason to celebrate.

Clear now! You should have said it from the very beginning in order to avoid any misunderstandings.

QUOTE

About the data you wrote it's not realistic from a lots of points.

If you cared to read my post you would have seen that it is not my data that I am quoting. In fact I tried to bring as many sources as possible for my statements. You on the other hand did not provide any hard data but stories.

For example, you brought cars into discussion, but the fact is that this is not at all a valid argument. Now you can see more brand new luxury cars in Bucharest than in many other advanced European capitals. Does this make Romania now more economically advanced than those countries?

QUOTE

You couldn't make such a statistic in any Balcanic country today...more in 1938 :roll:

Why not? Because Balkan countries (Romania included) were not as advanced as some may think?

QUOTE

Romania was then an agricultural country,and most of the financial operations between peasants(that were 65% of the population,were made in goods not in money,and even when made with many,were not registrated(like today).

And the wealth of Romania resided in unregistered financial operations between peasants? Well, reasoning in the same way Romania must be really advanced now, but unfortunately I (and many others) do not see this wealth.

QUOTE

I cannot belive that Greace and Bulgaria were over Romania those days :loool:  :loool:

If you do not believe it, it does not mean that it did not happen, does it?

QUOTE

We had industry,and they had olive oil and cucumbers.

It means that they made more money from olives and cucumbers than us from oil. Furthermore, our oil resources are almost depleted now. They still have olives and cucumbers.

QUOTE

I have two cousins(brothers) in the US,one lives in New York,earns almost double than his brother in Huston,but the cost of living is much higher in NY,that his brother in Huston lives with less money much beter than him.

And your point is? We were discussing pre-WWII Romania, not 21st century USA.

I tried to provide you several economic indicators that showed that in 1938 in comparison to other countries Romania was not that advanced. I say it again, I agree that Romania reached the height of its economical development in 1938-1939, but in comparison with other countries it was still behind.

[C-2]

It hapens,that 3 of my great great grandfathers,emigrated to Romania from 3 dif.places;one,an inginer fron Torino,from an old Italian family,one a merchent from Wiena,and another merchent from Greek.
If Romania was such an economic dissaster,what the hell were they doing in Romania :?: :?:
My grandmother Like her mother,studied in Braila in a Swisse school,with French as a first lang.(the teachers were from switzerland).And their family wasn't a rich one.
It isn't so relevant how much money you earn,but how much you can by with it.And that's not an 21 century problem!

[Victor]

QUOTE

Romania was then an agricultural country,and most of the financial operations between peasants(that were 65% of the population,were made in goods not in money,and even when made with many,were not registrated(like today).

78% of the Romanian population those days was living in villages.
But one thing must be noted: Romania had then the highest industrial developement rate in the region, more that Czechoslovakia. Not to mention a higher literacy rate than other countries, such as Spain for example.
Who knows how things would have evolved in 50 years of capitalism, instead of 50 years of Communism. At least we wouldn't have all these useless industrial mastodonts.

Mabadesc,
you are contradicting yourself. If it makes no importance when exactly the Soviets occupied Romania (since they would have eventually done it, because no one could stop them), why do you consider 23 August 1944 related to Communism. IMO this is just the result of 50 years of Communist propaganda. The act wasn't done by the Communists and was not intended to bring them to power.

[Dénes]

Despite their small number and hence their irrelevance, the Communists were clearly in the conspirators' cards. Otherwise how would you explain that the most important "prize", Marshal Antonescu himself, was handed over to them right after the coup?

[Bernard Miclescu]

Denes,

I think that the real communists were very few in Romania at that time. But the socialist party had some power in the newly formed gvt. And through this party soviet agents entered and starts making "order" in the newly "friend" Romania. After his arrest in Victoria Palace (?) , Antonescu was hold by Bodnar and his men (or Bodnareanu or smth like that? He was a soviet secret agent no?)
At that time i think that King Mihai and Sanatescu's gvt didn't have the choice: they had to let Antonescu in Soviet hands.

Yours,
Bm

[Victor]

It is strange that Sanatescu gave Antonescu to the Communists to guard. Maybe he thought that would please the Soviets and attract better terms for the armistice.

[Dénes]

... on 23 August, the first time the coup d'état is officially celebrated since 1989.
Article in 'Adevarul', the largest Rumanian daily (in Rumanian language only):
http://www.adevarulonline.ro/index.jsp?pag...rticle_id=94097

Col. Dénes

[Florin]

23 August 1944 - 23 August 2004

60 years

[dragos]

QUOTE

... on 23 August, the first time the coup d'état is officially celebrated since 1989. Article in 'Adevarul', the largest Rumanian daily (in Rumanian language only): http://www.adevarulonline.ro/index.jsp?pag...rticle_id=94097 Col. Dénes

Actually it was more a commemoration than a public celebration. It took place indoor, and there were mostly officials and war veterans.

[Dénes]

Was there a 'Speech to the Nation' read by the King, as planned? If yes, what was the message?

Col. Dénes

[dragos]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/romanian/news/story/2..._23august.shtml

[Victor]

Here are some photos I took of the ceremony on the Military Academy's Plateau (well, more recently baptized the National Defense University).

The plateau:


The veterans. Note the several Mihai Viteazul Order knights. The one in the blue uniform is general Ioan Dicezare:


The marching band and the rest of the troops lined up:


Mounted gendarmes on the side of the road (I didn't get to see them march):


Laying flower arrangements beside the statue (notice that it had already started to rain pretty hard):


After this I had to leave, as I didn't have an umbrella with me and it was pouring down. Although I live 5 minutes away from the Academy, I got lazy (and disgusted by the weather) after I arrived home and didn't return to photograph the small parade.

[C-2]

General Dicezare was present like always.
He did remain despite the rain....

[Carol I]

QUOTE

General Dicezare was present like always. He did remain despite the rain....

He later got the Knight's Cross of the Order of the Star.


Source: The Office of the President

[Florin]

QUOTE

Was there a 'Speech to the Nation' read by the King, as planned? If yes, what was the message? Col. Dénes

Denes,

As far as I could see, on the link offered by Dragos the speech is not reproduced. Maybe I do not know were to click.
According to my grandmother, who listened to it directly, the king mentioned that Romania cannot continue her duty as an Axis ally, and he asked the German Army to "withdraw from Romania with the order and discipline they always proved".
For most of the Romanian civilians, the speech meant "peace, at least".
However, my grandfather, just escaped from Crimea several weeks before, predicted in that late night of August 23 that this is the end Romania as they knew it, and the country will turn into a Communist state.