Regarding Trianon and the Kingdom of Hungary

They wearing the austro-hungarian uniforms. They was former k.u.k. soldiers and they still keep they uniforms and the individual weapons, as a defence force for all those romanian small political organisations.

For eg. the same photographer, Samoila Marza have a photo with a romanian banner bearier (stegar) Ioan Arion from Agris village delegacy, (Turda region) was deadly shoted by hungarian guards in Teius right in his way to Alba Iulia. He was the first victim of this romanian manifestation.

Here is a photo taken in the Maieri church (Alba) at Ioan Arion s funnerals. (2 december 1918).

This post has been edited by Dan Po on October 31, 2004 09:04 pm

Attached Image

Trianon movie


http://news.softpedia.com/news/1/2005/Janu...troversat.shtml


Iama

About the movie, in Romanian press:

http://www.romanialibera.ro/editie/index.p...12012005&idx=57

http://www.evenimentulzilei.ro/transilvania/?news_id=175993

Typical newspeoples' hype and spin:
"Interzis în Ungaria, „Trianon“ a rulat în cinematografe din Ungaria..."
Translation: Forbidden in Hungary, the Trianon [movie] has been screen in movie theatres in Hungary..."

Gen. Dénes

Ok, when this issue comes up, we're gonna have trouble. And propaganda. Mostly
romanian, since this is romanian forum.

I point. Why do we do this thing over and over again? We begin talking about the Trianon treaty and we arrive at the hunic origins of Hungarians? Can't we limit ourselves to the problem at hand instead of showing off our "historical skills"?

II point. Middle Age Hungarian doesn't mean Modern Hungarian. The assimilation to the hungarian nation had cultural and ideological factors (like religion) and not ethnicity or language. So, it's quite risky to make economical, social or population statistics according to notions that had no sense in those times.

III point. Please realize that most of us learned history from communist manuals, highly nationalistic and debatable. But you know the fun thing? Nobody debates, we all know that romanians are right as hungarians know they are right. It's unfortunate to see how history (like faith) has become tied to one's culture. For example, not many know that according to the hungarian historiography, the 16th-17th centuries, as the hungarian settlements decay from the turkish domination, more and more romanians settle in Transylvania, making a big change in the ethnical proportions. And from my lectures, I tend to favor such a factor, which could explain quite a lot of things. Of course, this doesn't mean that romanians were inexistent at that time in Transylvania (far from it), it just means that we should at least listen to some of the arguments presented by the other side...

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Alexandru, I agree with what you posted above (particularly with the note that we all have learned from history books published in the Communist era, which presented history in rather nationalistic way. Unfortunately, many still like that distorted point of view and try to stick to it, no matter what).

Unfortunately, history also mixes with politics.
Currently the "Hungarian danger" card can be played over and over again to reach some political goals. This whole hoopla with the Trianon movie "forbidden in Hungary" (it was not), but screened in Rumanian cinemas (it was shown only in a few private clubs) fits nicely in this trend.

One last side note. This forum could be one of the possibilities to communicate with the "other side". Too bad very few (if any) people "from the other side" are present here and willing to engage in such a historical debate, putting the nationalistic feelings aside...

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 12, 2005 05:42 pm

I think i say at least one time about my blood origin - "tatar, turc, lipovean, grec, bulgar", etc. ... maybe a quantity of my blood is hungarian, because my old-old-old-old part of family moved from Transilvany to northern Dobrudja. For me does not exists "other side"... Maybe i am the "other side" for majority of romanians. And - i read something write by you and another forumists in another topic, about "bozgor" thing. Could you imagine how was for me? I was " turcu' " in almost all places. Even now i had a coleague who say this word when adressed to me. But i make fun of this things - now i say i am the single black "lipovean", or .. i am japanesse "Yamandi" ... Just think about what means turcs / otomans for Romania and 100 % romanians.. And im not 100 % turc or tatar. Not dominant part from this origins...

Maybe you take that post - with Trianon movie - too personally? Was not intended...

Iama

It's not the ethnic origin, or (mixture of) blood in one's veines that counts, but rather the mindset.

Gen. Dénes

Note1. I completely forgot what I've said that had to be deleted, but I congratulate myself for that

Note2. Stereotype: You know I am of mixed origins so I cannot hate other nations, but Hungary really has problems with good Romanians like myself...

Note3. The scandal regarding "Tinutul Secuiesc" from the last days shows how belligerant we can be and how hopeless is the situation. I won't go over the details or the ultimate argument (that land is truly theirs and only a blind-folded romanian would think that the Szeklers are tresspassing here), though....nausea caused by nationalism is beginning to kick in...

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True Denes, but unfortunately - just hungarians make - hidden or not - action, claimings, and all of the f... s...ts for a long time a go. Ah, is a tradition... This thing with "maindset" is for both sides, for sure.

Iama

Good note, "Note2"!

But, for "4"... you are not a conservatorist, no?

"I'm suffocated by all this bureaucracy..." - is not bureaucracy -> is ignorance! If romanians are making such actions, Hungary were cry at all "high-gates" complaining and, for sure "dominant new empires" ...aaa, good democracy-example countrys from high level world are giving a cube of sugar to good-Hungary...

"We could really use a good war "

No! And you put the finger on an old wound - i think admins are not deleting in full speed this quote and Alexandru H. message. Back: no! is not a solution. Ignoring actual context ... alliances, etc. ... but war is not a solution. Time is the right solution. Maybe in future hungarian extremists may be just like in present days are "skinheads" from Germany - just some mad, ill, terribilists (*)... remanescence from past.


"Bag, bag baioneta-n el" - Corporal Margau, from "Noi cei din linia I"
movie

-> is not the right solution.

Iama

Alexandru H.

This is a final warning

You know, without being so much of a wise-guy, I still don't see any law-breaking in my simplistic statement. The only "threatening" thing on this thread (apart from my war-call, which should be taken seriously, since it was issued by a true dictator, that rules over most of the known world ) is the one-track answers that flow from word "Trianon": Transylvania, mine, not yours, Og, club, use, invent fire!

Edit: After reading Iamandi's last message, I sense that some people might actually believe that I, personally, would want to wage a war. Ok, let's see what my side would be: Romania no, since I am not on its full side regarding Transylvania, Hungary no, since I am not Hungarian and again not on its full side. I think that I'll form my own army, made out of street vagabonds and conquer the world!

(Oh, no, I've said it again, I must be serious!)

This post has been edited by Alexandru H. on January 17, 2005 07:06 am

I just say "you put the finger on an old wound" - nothing like - "hei you want to make a war?". Just i used your words to say the war is not a solution. Or it is? Is not! Or.. ?

Iama

War is a solution, like anything else. I recall having to bomb Germany to death just to defeat Hitler. So it can be a really good solution and I can't hide the fact that I find war fascinating and sometime quite necessary. If we need it now or not it is up to our government and our internal politics.

As for your romanian-turkish-sumerian expression, well I get it... in a really twisted and bizarre pro-Moldavian way