How good is the TR 85-M1 tank?

We have? I only knew about AT-3s and AT-4s.

yes ..see the rafael turret for MLI-84M ... is modular with spike LT module or with Maliutka 2T

the Spike ER is in the usage of the IAR-330 SOCAT's

You need 105 or 120mm guns for the LAHAT.

Spike ER? Only vehicles/gunships in romanian service that fire ATGM are TABC, MLI-84 and IAR-330 SOCAT. From what I read and seen in pictures they are armed with Sagger and X-5 for iar 330. and only man portable ATGM we have is AT-4 and probably AT-5

" In addition to the ‘Sagger’-armed BRDM-2s, which operate with the support company, the 812th’s other anti-armour assets comprise the 9K113 (AT-5 ‘Spandrel’) anti-tank missile and the Romanian version of the SPG-9 73mm recoilless rifle."
http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/g...for_intro.shtml

what are you sources for Spike?

though I found this:

"SPIKE goes operational


All of the system components, as well as the different missile variants, are already in full-scale production. For its European customers (currently Finland, Poland and the Netherlands, to be followed in future by Romania and Italy)"
http://www.rheinmetall.de/index.php?lang=3&fid=1515

articles dates back to february 2005

but I still think to rely on ATGM is a bad idea.
can only carry very few MLI-84 is armed with 4 of them. same goes for man portable ones.
the first couple might never hit the target anyway. first MLI-84 has no thermal imaging.
so it can't see through smoke. in this case the premitive laser warning receivers + smoke grenades works
like a charm gainst the MLI's missiles and pretty much any MBT has smoke launchers and LWR. then there are the
active protection systems like VIRSS (on western tanks) and arena, shtora and drozd (on eastern tanks) can
easily destroy or deviate incoming missiles. and if by chance a missile does hit the target, chances are it won't
make the tank inoperative. like 120mm said, as soon as media sees smoke and fire on a tank they think it's destroyed and goes to
scrap yard. I'd like to see the pictures of the merkavas destroyed by hezbollah..

here's a video of merkava hit by missile on the right side and again by several RPG rounds. i don't know what happened to the crew but the tank seems to have survived the attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltCxHIWj658

For Spike on MLI
http://www.mfaromania.ro/ows.htm
http://www.mfaromania.ro/mlitech.htm
from the MLI-84M producer.(they must know something don't they?

Would export licence list do? http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/REG_EXP_ISR_95-05.pdf

one more link
http://rafael.co.il/web/rafnew/news/news/R...PIKE-LR0703.pdf
Copyright Rafael


Is a long standard procedure of the Army to use in training the oldes projectile which aproach their shelf limit, those consuming them in a usefull way.

Question: Do you know how many TR125's did Romania produce?
Answer: Five TR-125 were produced when the 1989 revolution begun.

From the very beginnig I would like to say that you have been posting here a lot of good information and I must say that few of you had really good ideas.
So regarding the question "How good is the TR-85 M1 Bison?" I must say that is the mbt we can afford at this time. Some of you are intrigued by the 50t of the product. Well you said about the enrichment in the armor area but I think you have left out the tracks, which are changed and they are not like the ones in the original product TR-800(TR-85), the motric wheel(sorry if it is wrong spelled) is different and it is much bigger, the equipment inside is quite a lot and ads more weight to the product. All in all (in my opinion), the weight of the product is not around 50t, is more like 48t-49t. Okay, fully equipped is exceeding 50t, because the main gun has 41 rounds, the 7,62mm coaxial machine gun has 5000 rounds, the anti-aircraft gun 12,7mm DSKM has 750 rounds, the smoke grenades are 16 in number and the flare grenades only 4. To fill it up with fuel you need 960l of diesel fuel and with aditional barrels 400l of diesel. So you go fully equipped from 48t to 52,5t. You add 2,5t to the general weight of the product. The TR-800 was 46t and fully eqiupped reached 48,5t. And you must not forget that the groud base for TR-85M1 are actually the T-55 and Leopard 1. The turret is from the T-55 and the chassis, engine and transmission are from Leopard1.
In the '80s the Romanian secret services had in their hangars 2 tanks - Leopard 1 and Merkava. And someone made a choice. And you see now the results.
The contract with the power plant which is upgrading theese mbt's is for 56 TR-85M1's and one evacuation vehicle build on the same chassis and one or two assault bridges, also build on the same chassis. Plus the power pland built the new mine clearence vehicle for the Mbt's battalions called DMT 85 M1, search the web and you will find it. And in the ROU ARMY at this moment there aren't more than 35 TR-85M1 because they are very slow in upgrading products.
So my armored friends enthusiasts we fight with what we have. If the MOD is not willing to pay more money for the Land Armed Forces the ROU ARMY is forced to buy cheap materiels to upgrade the arsenal. The guys from the power plant told that they had engines up to 1200 bhp but they did what they had to do. Adapt to the budget, military budget.
And there are products with thermal view camera, which is quite good I must say, but 'cause it's very expensive, products are coming in the unit only with 2nd generation night passive light intensifier which allows you to fire up to 1200m, if they work properly.
If the politicians decide to take money from the MOD they do it without any questions and the ROU ARMY is to suffer the consequencies. So in my opinion, and others, of course, is the best we can have right now. Maybe in the near future we will have some LEOPARD 2 A5, I have heard some rumours. Meanwhile people are working with TR-85M1 product.

If Romania can get any Leopard 2-A5 then it should! Romania has so missed the opportunity to buy cheap Leopards 2-A4's like Poland, Finland, and Chile have done.

A one hour BBC3 show with the TR-85M1:
http://www.peteava.ro/id-488713

How many gallons of petrol or gasoline did most tanks in WWII carry inside them?
how this was? how about other military vehicles? and how much fuel would be burned per mile/ km or how many miles or km could one go with on 1 gallon of petrol or gasoline?

also, was this gasoline "Diesal" or which grade it was? HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO KEEP SO MANY TANKS FUELED ALL THE TIME? AND WHY THE ROMANIANS WERE GIVING THE GERMANS THEIR OIL? WHY THE ALLIES COULDNT TAKE THIS FROM THEM?

please explain what you can.

thanks for your answers!

Your question has nothing to do with the TR 85.

How much fuel did tanks use? That is impossible to say. It is like asking "how much fuel do cars use today?". You will need to narrow it down to weight and type. No two tanks were the same, even when they were the same weight and powered by the same engine. There are thousands of variable at play. You will need to research individual types by yourself.

How much did they travel? Tanks are not "long distance travellers". Most of them are transported to the battle scene on trains or trailers. Same happens today. Once they were on the battlefield, they travelled as much as they needed to win the battle or get destroyed. That may mean 10, 20 maybe 30 Km. Tanks did not have long lives.

How were they able to fuel them? Fuel was transported by tanker trains, then the fuel was transferred to fuel tankers, then to oil drums, then transferred by hand pumps or pure gravity into the fuel tanks of the tank itself. You must remember that war did not happen everywhere all the time. "War" happened only at the frontline. Behind the front line, life went on, crops were harvested, trains ran on some kind of schedule, people worked in factories, movies were filmed and orchestras recorded music. Each side controlled a certain area of land, which allowed them to move and bring supplies. Encircled forces (meaning those forces that lost the lines of supplies) were supplied by air such as it happened with the Germans in Stalingrad or by water (and later by ice) such as it happened with the Russians in Leningrad.

Gasoline or Diesel? Germans preferred Diesel (they even tinkered with Diesel-electric), Americans preferred gasoline. Shermans were nicknamed "Zippos" (as in the cigarette lighters) because they caught fire very easily. Unlike gasoline, Diesel does not light up as easily - Diesel has the advantage, when it comes to military hardware. Grade? Same any truck of today, nothing fancy.

Romanians were not "giving" oil to the Germans. They sold it to them. With that money they purchased equipment and kept the country going. The "Allies" tried and largely succeeded in "taking it" from them. Does the date of 1 August 1943 mean anything to you? A few other significant and similar events followed after that date and all the way through the first half of 1944. 23 August 1944 put an end to supplies of oil to the Germans.

HTH
Radu

a Tiger for example would use about 210 gallons of fuel on a road and about 300 cross country for 100 miles travelled.
the fuel tank capacity was 229 gallons.
from there you can do the math.

The TR-85M1 is huge improvement over the basic TR-85. However the 100mm main gun is far too weak against current generation MBT's! At least a 120mm or 125mm gun would be much better.

Achtung Panzer!!!!!!!!!,
Although the subject of the origin of TR-77/-85 tanks is totally unknown to the general public, and even military experts have not really talked about it, they were the result of collaboration with the Chinese military industry. The chinese specialists obviously haven't revealed all their Type 80 tank best components (with Western technologies) but the basic components are alike! I personally heard a tank specialist telling about working together with the Chinese in the romanian tank project.
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type88.asp -this is certainly a more developed and modern design then ours TR-series but see the general design!
About the Merkava story, it was widely chronicled by Pacepa and later by other less compromised intelligence officers... no Merkava for sure, just a modernized Centurion (Sho't Kal) captured, and indeed studied by our specialists... surely I heard also about the Leopard tank but don't know for sure...