How good is the TR 85-M1 tank?

NASH, the fact is that Romania is not even a medium power. We are insignificant.

You are right ...., but we are NATO and very soon UE member..., we had to change our mentality..., I've been in many countries as tourist...and believe me neither Greece is..., or Austria..., but they have a better management and a way better mentality...., we will never be a medium power but our voice can count...it depend on us....

Greece has a GDP roughly 3 times bigger than ours, and Austria one 4 times bigger. I think they can afford a better mentality.

....management and mentality made GDP..., in 1930 Greece had a half of Romanian GDP...!!

If we continue to think like that...soon we can afford...nothing...

Imperialist .., I've seen that you are younger than me...and I expected a little more from you..., simply we can not think like that...,we have to trust in us...,you are 4 years younger and your generation must change mine..., we have to change our mentality , we have to work harder..., we have to think clearly...and our GDP will grow.....

Imperialist is an optimist
Actually it even rhymes

"f**k You Romania" was pretty much appreciated among the people of my age, at least among the ones I know and talked with. And they dont seem so interested in hard work. Going through school was a joy ride, nothing hard, eventually even the stiffest teacher gave them the 5. Usually they got the 8 with a good copy and paste job. Only the idiots worked hard, and the joke was very sour on them when they got the 6 or 7, anyway lower than the copy and paste guys. But go ahead and expect a lot from the coming generations. The system in this state is a f*ing joke. It certainly doesnt prepare anyone for hard work, it even discourages it.

Anyway, to get back on topic -- can Romania build a tank by itself?

I think that with a clear vision and persistence in whatever niche Romania wants to fill, it can be a fairly prosperous country. I think the relatively small size of the country can be a strength.

Romania doesn't have to develop any weapon systems from scratch; You can pick and choose those "off-the-shelf" technologies that can benefit your system the most. And to a certain extent, your ministry of defense is already doing that.

I have picked up a certain "inferiority complex" from some of the Romanians I've corresponded with. I think that needs to be addressed, as well as the physical improvements to the infrastructure.

Historically, many elite military forces have been born in similar situations. People with a "chip on their shoulders" tend to make incredible elite forces. All that is needed is a leadership that understands what resonates with your country.

To get back on topic, I believe the TR85-M1 tank is fine, considering the current threat. I would say the most probable threat to Romania is economic, not military.

I would think Romania may be able to build something like the CV90120, which would be deployable and "smart" and use the TR85-M1 as a home/built-up defense tank.

This post has been edited by 120mm on June 11, 2006 10:23 pm

NASH, you can edit your posts if you think you have to add something to it (just push the Edit button in the top right corner of the post). You don't have to post three times in a row.

Also, please get back to the original subject and leave the discussion on Romania for another topic.

CV 90 familly is a nice dream, unfortunatelly. You are right, we can use the TR85 - M1 in reduced roles, and with an army equiped with CV 90 vechicles... we will be a different power and a nation more capable to act in the new battlefields, with much capable armoured vechicles deployable with the C-130.
Dream: with some money, we can obtain a vechicle based on CV 90, but armed with more powerfull 57 m.m. Bofors...

Iama

K , I 'll do it so... No ,I don't think Romania can built a new mbt completly by itself....,not know..., but we could cooperate with other nations, like Poland ...and make a new one based on common projects..., we also could take a license ... The TR 2000 project was a good ideea..., based on Leopard II MK 5.., we don't need 1200 TR 2000, only 300 would be enough...
We need to use our resources wisely....not to spend them on non valid projects.., TR 2000 could be something we could export..., new technologies.., large industrial cooperation..., know how...Pols ,they have a similar project named Gorilla..., could be a good start for a cooperation..

why doesn't Romania develop HESH munitions for TR-85 instead? this would be especially advantageous to the TR-85 because it doesn't have a powerful main gun and this type of munition doesn't have to penetrate the armour to cause damage. on impact the warhead flatens over the armour causing a shockwave that travels through the armour and sending little fragments off the inside armour against the crew and equipment.

So if I understood well from this thread our upgraded TR-85s cannot fire ATGMs through their gun? Why didnt they have that in mind when upgrading them? Can they place ATGMs on top/sides of the tank then?

thanku

I think because Romania will have to buy new ATGM's from Russia. The only missile fit to be fired from 100mm gun is Basnya and since HEAt rounds depend a lot on their diameter to penetrate armour 100mm makes a pretty weak missile. but it's possible to have our improved AT-3 fired from a pod like slovenian t-55s1. at least that's what I think the pod (side turret) is for...