NUmber of sorties of the Rumanian JU 87 and Ju 88 bombers

[Csaba Becze]

I am curious the number of the sorties with this types (Squadrons and Groups, approx, especially in 1943 and 1944)
BTW several years ago a historian mentioned me in Budapest, that they found some Rumanian dive bomber materials among their documents, and it was sent to Bucharest. Anybody knows, what kind of Rumanian stukisti materials were in Budapest?

Thans,

Csaba

P. S. wow, I got a really Rumanian military rank 8)

[Dénes]

Csaba wrote:

QUOTE

BTW several years ago a historian mentioned me in Budapest, that they found some Rumanian dive bomber materials among their documents, and it was sent to Bucharest. Anybody knows, what kind of Rumanian stukisti materials were in Budapest?

I've had the chance to consult these captured documents (even wrote a short Hungarian laguage synopsis about their content for the Hungarian archives).
IIRC, there were parts of Grupul 6 picaj's combat diary and two logbooks of Rumanian 'Stukisti' airmen.
A couple of years ago, the reconditioned documents were offered as gift to the Rumanian Military Archives.

Dénes

[Csaba Becze]

It was a captured matrial?? Where was it captured?

[Dénes]

I assume they were captured. How else could they end up in the Hungarian archives.
I forgot to mention that the date the Combat Diary covers was Sept.-Oct. 1944, thus following the Rumanian about-face.

Dénes

[Victor]

3rd Dive Bomber Group (Ju-87D-3 & 5)
June 1943(from 17 on): 132 sorties
July 1943: around 770
August 1943: 568
September 1943: 330
October 1943: 494
November 1943: 454
December 1943: 183
January 1944: 99
February 1944: 79
March 1944: 289
April 1944: 75
From here only could only find partial data for both dive bomber groups (3rd and 6th, which has also entered the scene)
May 1944: 191
June 1944: 57
July 1944: 72
August 1944: 142
Before 23 August 1944, the 3rd Dive Bomber Group began the process of converting to the Fw-190F and some of its pilots were already undergoing training in Germany. The 6th Dive Bomber Group lost its Stukas as they were seized by the Germans. The few remaining Ju-87Ds of the 3rd flew a mission against German barges on the Danube on 28

[Csaba Becze]

Thanks, Victor. This Group had 3 full squadrons? They flew separated missions, or with German Ju 87's?

[Victor]

The 3rd Group had 3 separate squadrons: 73rd, 81st and 85th. They generally flew separate missions. The only Germans werethe liaison officer and occasional camera operators for the Propaganda service. What was characteristoc for this group was that most of the airplanes had names (generally related to girlfriends or wives). It operated over the Taman bridgehead andin Crimea throughout June 1943-May 1944 and then in Moldavia until August 1944. After 23 August it was united with the 6th Dive Bomber Group. Only several (about four) of its crews remained in the new unit. The rest were reassigned, mostly because of their extensive service on the Eastern Front (while the 6th Dive Bomber Group saw little action there).

Because of the losses which could not be replaced (including because of Soviet "friendly" fire) the unit wasreduced to a squadron (the 73rd) and assigned to the 8th Assault Group.

[Csaba Becze]

Ok, thanks.

And the Ju 88 bombers? How many sorties did they flew?

[Victor]

Unfortunately here the information is not very detailed. Here is what I could find:
18 June – 14 August 1943, 6th Bomber Group: 351 sorties (launched 525 tons of bombs)
From 15 August, the 6th Bomber Group, which had suffered heavy losses, was replaced by the more experienced 5th Bomber Group.
15 August – 12 August 1943: 2,234 sorties (3,414 tons of bombs)
During 20-22 August there were 40 sorties. There was also something strange, because from May to August, the group had not flown any war missions.

After 23 August the remaining Ju-88A4s were massed into the 79th Bomber Squadron, which later, because of losses and mechanical problems was united with the 2nd Long Range Recon Squadron (flying Ju-88-D1s).

The info about the Ju-87s was taken from Romanian Black Hussars: Grupul 3 Picaj by C. Craciunoiu and J. L. Roba, Modelism 1998 and the info on the Ju-88s from Pumnul Tarii: Grupul 5 Bombardament Greu by cdor. av. Dan Stoian, Modelism 1999.

[Csaba Becze]

Thanks, Victor, interesting detalils for me.

The 5th Bomber Group flew between 15 August, 1943 and 12 August, 1944 this 2243 sorties?

This books have a short English summary?

[Victor]

Black Hussars is in English (well a kind of English ). The other one is only in Romanian

[C-2]

QUOTE

Black Hussars is in English (well a kind of English  :D ). The other one is only in Romanian

A English from the middle ages!

[Dénes]

You shouldn't scorn the English language from the Middle Ages by comparing Modelism's preudo-English to Skahespeare's language
We should rather call it "engleza de balta". Translation attempt, anyone? 8)

Dénes